Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact
- Thread starter Dr. Reef
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We have found that our TurboStart 700 freshwater product works (somewhat) in saltwater, but not as well as the TurboStart 900 saltwater product. However, the saltwater product does not do well as the salinity goes down. So, in saltwater aquaculture where they are using very low salinities <20 ppt we recommend the freshwater product, TurboStart 700.
@Katrina71
some people do like to add those mixed digestion-type bacteria during water changes, for example Maritza the vase reef does, they use a weekly addition of bacteria to break down detritus better than without. I don't use any, I just stir up waste really good during a water change and physically remove it. its not harmful to add the bacteria, I see it like humans who choose to take or not to take pro biotic supplements, ok either way.
some people do like to add those mixed digestion-type bacteria during water changes, for example Maritza the vase reef does, they use a weekly addition of bacteria to break down detritus better than without. I don't use any, I just stir up waste really good during a water change and physically remove it. its not harmful to add the bacteria, I see it like humans who choose to take or not to take pro biotic supplements, ok either way.
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
As of this morning Seed, Prodibio and Dr Tim were all sitting at 2ppm.
I am down to last 2 vials of prodibio and i would like to save it for my final study so i couldnt dose it but i did double dose Dr Tim and Seed.
Will test tomorrow morning to see the results. I am not sure why these tanks are stalling at 2ppm i would have expected a little better or slower reduction by now on day 5.
Just to be on safe side i shook the heck out of the bottles before drawing fluid.
Will report back tomorrow morning.
I am down to last 2 vials of prodibio and i would like to save it for my final study so i couldnt dose it but i did double dose Dr Tim and Seed.
Will test tomorrow morning to see the results. I am not sure why these tanks are stalling at 2ppm i would have expected a little better or slower reduction by now on day 5.
Just to be on safe side i shook the heck out of the bottles before drawing fluid.
Will report back tomorrow morning.
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OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
Day 5 after dosing bacteria and double dosing yesterday. I have some better results i think.
I figured out the problem with Dr Tim One and Only. This product settles on the bottom of the bottle very quickly and needs to be shaken vigorously and really well to get it to mix and come up. Bacteria in one and only is attached to small particles in the mixture that settles due to weight on the bottom of the bottle. If you are not drawing fluid from the bottom of the bottle and had a syringe or dropper with fat enough opening you are not drawing in the particles with bacteria on it rather just filling solution.
Once after i spoke to Dr Tim yesterday in China it came all clear to me why his product was not performing as i expected it to be.
I had been shaking all products before using but honestly due to the way One and Only is made and put together you need to shake it like your life depended on it and then try to draw with a long dropper or syringe to get to the bottom of the bottle.
I find this a flaw in the production as not everyone will shake it that hard nor will be able to draw that far deep. Bottle clearly says to shake well and use cap (10ml) for 10 gal tank. And if you are like me i would take the bottle and shake it for few seconds and open the cap and pour the product directly into cap and dose the tank. This process will probably not going to get you the bacteria in enough quantity in the cap to make a dent in ammonia right off the bat.
I strongly suggest to shake it really really well and then use a long syringe or dropper with a wide mouth to be able to suck in the particles and fluids evenly and dose accordingly.
After doing so i dosed 10ml in 5gal tank which is double the dose suggested on instructions mentioned on the back of the bottle. It was dosed yesterday exactly 24 hrs ago and today i ran API ammonia test on all 3 tanks.
Seachem Seed also shaken really well and double dosed yesterday. Prodibio not dosed. Dr Tim One and Only shaken like crazy and fluid drawn from bottom of the bottle dosed yesterday.
Today i found the following results:
Seed: 1 ppm
Prodibio: 1 ppm
Dr Tim: 0.5 ppm
Here is the pics of today's test
From left to right Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
I figured out the problem with Dr Tim One and Only. This product settles on the bottom of the bottle very quickly and needs to be shaken vigorously and really well to get it to mix and come up. Bacteria in one and only is attached to small particles in the mixture that settles due to weight on the bottom of the bottle. If you are not drawing fluid from the bottom of the bottle and had a syringe or dropper with fat enough opening you are not drawing in the particles with bacteria on it rather just filling solution.
Once after i spoke to Dr Tim yesterday in China it came all clear to me why his product was not performing as i expected it to be.
I had been shaking all products before using but honestly due to the way One and Only is made and put together you need to shake it like your life depended on it and then try to draw with a long dropper or syringe to get to the bottom of the bottle.
I find this a flaw in the production as not everyone will shake it that hard nor will be able to draw that far deep. Bottle clearly says to shake well and use cap (10ml) for 10 gal tank. And if you are like me i would take the bottle and shake it for few seconds and open the cap and pour the product directly into cap and dose the tank. This process will probably not going to get you the bacteria in enough quantity in the cap to make a dent in ammonia right off the bat.
I strongly suggest to shake it really really well and then use a long syringe or dropper with a wide mouth to be able to suck in the particles and fluids evenly and dose accordingly.
After doing so i dosed 10ml in 5gal tank which is double the dose suggested on instructions mentioned on the back of the bottle. It was dosed yesterday exactly 24 hrs ago and today i ran API ammonia test on all 3 tanks.
Seachem Seed also shaken really well and double dosed yesterday. Prodibio not dosed. Dr Tim One and Only shaken like crazy and fluid drawn from bottom of the bottle dosed yesterday.
Today i found the following results:
Seed: 1 ppm
Prodibio: 1 ppm
Dr Tim: 0.5 ppm
Here is the pics of today's test
From left to right Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
I double dosed Seed and Dr Tim again after this test and will continue to monitor the results every 24 hrs.
But due to this new finding i think it will be fair to reset in next couple of days and re-do this whole thing again and shake the bottles really well and draw fluids form bottom of the bottles and then dose. I will wait till Sunday (3 days from now) let tanks continue and test every 24 hrs. After Sunday i will bleach and reset.
I think this next reset and retesting with new finding will be a more fair and better test and in knowing which product perform well.
But due to this new finding i think it will be fair to reset in next couple of days and re-do this whole thing again and shake the bottles really well and draw fluids form bottom of the bottles and then dose. I will wait till Sunday (3 days from now) let tanks continue and test every 24 hrs. After Sunday i will bleach and reset.
I think this next reset and retesting with new finding will be a more fair and better test and in knowing which product perform well.
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
Update guys.
I received the package from Instant Ocean today. Colleen at IO sent me a generous amount of Bio Spira.
I really appreciate her and IO for making this part of the study possible.
Colleen sent me 12 bottles of Bio Spira. I tried searching for a manufacture date or expiration dates but I couldn't find one on any bottle. I hope they are fresh and would love to see how they perform.
(Most wanted product by hobbyist for me to test)
Colleen @ Instant Ocean thank you for a generous amount of Bio Spira and participating in the study.
I received the package from Instant Ocean today. Colleen at IO sent me a generous amount of Bio Spira.
I really appreciate her and IO for making this part of the study possible.
Colleen sent me 12 bottles of Bio Spira. I tried searching for a manufacture date or expiration dates but I couldn't find one on any bottle. I hope they are fresh and would love to see how they perform.
(Most wanted product by hobbyist for me to test)
Colleen @ Instant Ocean thank you for a generous amount of Bio Spira and participating in the study.
chipmunkofdoom2
Always Making Something
Update guys.
I received the package from Instant Ocean today. Colleen at IO sent me a generous amount of Bio Spira.
I really appreciate her and IO for making this part of the study possible.
Colleen sent me 12 bottles of Bio Spira. I tried searching for a manufacture date or expiration dates but I couldn't find one on any bottle. I hope they are fresh and would love to see how they perform.
(Most wanted product by hobbyist for me to test)
Colleen @ Instant Ocean thank you for a generous amount of Bio Spira and participating in the study.
It's really great to see IO supporting this project so generously. I really hope that Bio Spira performs well. I see it for sale at almost all Petcos and even some Petsmart's, despite the fact that they don't actually sell saltwater fish. Given that it's pretty cheap and relatively available, I think it would be a really great thing for the hobby if we can show empirically that it is effective.
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
So guys as of right now i am six and a half days into testing.
I double dosed Dr Tim and Seed two days in a row and i will conclude this round of study after today.
Even after dosing double the suggested amount of bacteria in Dr Tim and Seed i saw minimum shift/reduction in ammonia.
Control tank is sitting at 2 ppm and shows no signs of reduction at all,
Dr Tim after double dosing and shaking bottle well the forth day showed reduction from 2 ppm to 1.2ppm and on day 5 down to 0.5 ppm and on 6th day and a half still shows 0.5 ppm.
Seachem Seed was dosed daily for first 3 days and 4th, 5th day double dosed. After double dosing 4th day i noticed it to have dropped to 1.2-1.5 range and today at day 6 it sits at 1 ppm.
Fritz Turbo Start 900 showed 0 on second day and has been zero since then even with 0.5 ppm ammonia being dosed daily.
I conclude this round of study with:
1. Fritz still a better performer than others.
2. I did learn the problem with Dr Tim One and only about shaking it really well and drawing from bottom of the bottle to get better results. It did start performing better when i did according to my new findings. Love to see its results in next round.
3. I also noticed Salifert ammonia kit is of 2 types. Sometimes its NH4 and sometimes NH3. either way its not an appropriate kit for this test. Would love to see NH3 results against Seneye monitor results when i do that study.
4. Evaporation this time was very uniform across the board putting rest to earlier mystery of one tank evaporating more than other.
5. Api colors are harder to determine than red sea. while both kits are good at producing same results, i did not find a difference in test results as final levels did match but i found API colors hard to match and determine against its chart while Red Sea was easier to identify.
Breaking down the tanks this weekend and will reset by Monday for same 4 contenders at 2 ppm test for consistency and to reproduce same results.
From Left to Right
Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
I double dosed Dr Tim and Seed two days in a row and i will conclude this round of study after today.
Even after dosing double the suggested amount of bacteria in Dr Tim and Seed i saw minimum shift/reduction in ammonia.
Control tank is sitting at 2 ppm and shows no signs of reduction at all,
Dr Tim after double dosing and shaking bottle well the forth day showed reduction from 2 ppm to 1.2ppm and on day 5 down to 0.5 ppm and on 6th day and a half still shows 0.5 ppm.
Seachem Seed was dosed daily for first 3 days and 4th, 5th day double dosed. After double dosing 4th day i noticed it to have dropped to 1.2-1.5 range and today at day 6 it sits at 1 ppm.
Fritz Turbo Start 900 showed 0 on second day and has been zero since then even with 0.5 ppm ammonia being dosed daily.
I conclude this round of study with:
1. Fritz still a better performer than others.
2. I did learn the problem with Dr Tim One and only about shaking it really well and drawing from bottom of the bottle to get better results. It did start performing better when i did according to my new findings. Love to see its results in next round.
3. I also noticed Salifert ammonia kit is of 2 types. Sometimes its NH4 and sometimes NH3. either way its not an appropriate kit for this test. Would love to see NH3 results against Seneye monitor results when i do that study.
4. Evaporation this time was very uniform across the board putting rest to earlier mystery of one tank evaporating more than other.
5. Api colors are harder to determine than red sea. while both kits are good at producing same results, i did not find a difference in test results as final levels did match but i found API colors hard to match and determine against its chart while Red Sea was easier to identify.
Breaking down the tanks this weekend and will reset by Monday for same 4 contenders at 2 ppm test for consistency and to reproduce same results.
From Left to Right
Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
You have some facts right...
Dr Tim used to work for IO and developed Bio Spira at IO for them. At some point he ventured into his own business leaving behind Bio Spira the way it is and developed his own brand One and Only a better product with more strands of bacteria.
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Brew12
Electrical Gru
I would be careful using the term "better" when it comes to the bacteria. It is a little different blend. What is "better" is going to be very tank specific. There is a good chance that the bacteria you add from the bottle will be starved out by different nitrifying bacteria and be completely replaced in the first year. As your tank ages, the dominant strain may change multiple times as tank conditions begin to favor one over another.
Great conclusions @Dr. Reef looking forward to the next roundSo guys as of right now i am six and a half days into testing.
I double dosed Dr Tim and Seed two days in a row and i will conclude this round of study after today.
Even after dosing double the suggested amount of bacteria in Dr Tim and Seed i saw minimum shift/reduction in ammonia.
Control tank is sitting at 2 ppm and shows no signs of reduction at all,
Dr Tim after double dosing and shaking bottle well the forth day showed reduction from 2 ppm to 1.2ppm and on day 5 down to 0.5 ppm and on 6th day and a half still shows 0.5 ppm.
Seachem Seed was dosed daily for first 3 days and 4th, 5th day double dosed. After double dosing 4th day i noticed it to have dropped to 1.2-1.5 range and today at day 6 it sits at 1 ppm.
Fritz Turbo Start 900 showed 0 on second day and has been zero since then even with 0.5 ppm ammonia being dosed daily.
I conclude this round of study with:
1. Fritz still a better performer than others.
2. I did learn the problem with Dr Tim One and only about shaking it really well and drawing from bottom of the bottle to get better results. It did start performing better when i did according to my new findings. Love to see its results in next round.
3. I also noticed Salifert ammonia kit is of 2 types. Sometimes its NH4 and sometimes NH3. either way its not an appropriate kit for this test. Would love to see NH3 results against Seneye monitor results when i do that study.
4. Evaporation this time was very uniform across the board putting rest to earlier mystery of one tank evaporating more than other.
5. Api colors are harder to determine than red sea. while both kits are good at producing same results, i did not find a difference in test results as final levels did match but i found API colors hard to match and determine against its chart while Red Sea was easier to identify.
Breaking down the tanks this weekend and will reset by Monday for same 4 contenders at 2 ppm test for consistency and to reproduce same results.
From Left to Right
Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
Am I reading this correctly, you are basing the performance and review of these products on a test performed in a week?So guys as of right now i am six and a half days into testing.
I double dosed Dr Tim and Seed two days in a row and i will conclude this round of study after today.
Even after dosing double the suggested amount of bacteria in Dr Tim and Seed i saw minimum shift/reduction in ammonia.
Control tank is sitting at 2 ppm and shows no signs of reduction at all,
Dr Tim after double dosing and shaking bottle well the forth day showed reduction from 2 ppm to 1.2ppm and on day 5 down to 0.5 ppm and on 6th day and a half still shows 0.5 ppm.
Seachem Seed was dosed daily for first 3 days and 4th, 5th day double dosed. After double dosing 4th day i noticed it to have dropped to 1.2-1.5 range and today at day 6 it sits at 1 ppm.
Fritz Turbo Start 900 showed 0 on second day and has been zero since then even with 0.5 ppm ammonia being dosed daily.
I conclude this round of study with:
1. Fritz still a better performer than others.
2. I did learn the problem with Dr Tim One and only about shaking it really well and drawing from bottom of the bottle to get better results. It did start performing better when i did according to my new findings. Love to see its results in next round.
3. I also noticed Salifert ammonia kit is of 2 types. Sometimes its NH4 and sometimes NH3. either way its not an appropriate kit for this test. Would love to see NH3 results against Seneye monitor results when i do that study.
4. Evaporation this time was very uniform across the board putting rest to earlier mystery of one tank evaporating more than other.
5. Api colors are harder to determine than red sea. while both kits are good at producing same results, i did not find a difference in test results as final levels did match but i found API colors hard to match and determine against its chart while Red Sea was easier to identify.
Breaking down the tanks this weekend and will reset by Monday for same 4 contenders at 2 ppm test for consistency and to reproduce same results.
From Left to Right
Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
well kinda sorta
i ran 2 tests with same products at 8ppm ammonia and came to same results in 7 days.
Then this test was 2 ppm ammonia with same products and same results in 7 days. Now i am resetting the tanks and conducting 2 more identical tests for consistency and best of 3 rule.
Experiment is to show which products brings ammonia down to 0 the fastest within few days.
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