Bacteria maintenance. What do you dose?

[Paul B]

Uh oh, hit your hot button.

Yes, apparently you did.

The person I was responding to made several strong and unlikely to be accurate statements (IMO) that even you likely do not agree with (reef tanks "need" purple bacteria? have you ever added any?).

True, I don't believe any of that.

Is your lack of fish disease from feeding foods with GI tracts that contain bacteria?

Is it from lack of QT?

Is it from having a low stress tank?

Is it from any of the many other husbandry things you do?

Yes, it is from all of those things.

Unless you do all of those and do not feed those gut bacteria, you have no evidence which of these things is important.

True, so we need to find some very old, healthy, immune tanks that do not feed gut bacteria and only dry foods. I personally don't know of any, but of course, I don't know every tank. I have only heard of the old, natural tanks, which are the oldest on any forum as far as I can tell.

Do you know of any tank anywhere that does everything you do except it feeds only foods without gut bacteria, and that this tank gets diseases where yours does not?

No, I don't. Feeding live gut bacteria is IMO the most important thing to do; without it, it's impossible to have immune fish, so those tanks must quarantine.

Lacking that, you have a method that works. But you do not know which aspects of that method are important and which are not.

I can only go by my 70 years of fish keeping experience. I did not come to my method overnight. It took decades of trial and error. But I do have evidence that it works, but no evidence that a tank not doing what I do can last 55 years and be totally immune with no crashes. Do you?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It took decades of trial and error. But I do have evidence that it works, but no evidence that a tank not doing what I do can last 55 years and be totally immune with no crashes. Do you?

No, which is exactly my point. There no evidence which husbandry aspects are important. Maybe all of them, maybe only some. :)

Even assuming it is ALL of them, then the question arises whether there is any benefit of doing only some of them. Like feeding gut bacteria to fish when you are not doing the other important aspects of your method. :)

 

[Paul B]

I'm not sure. I assume feeding gut bacteria would boost the immunity, but if your aquascaping incorrectly and don't have enough, tight, natural hiding places the fish will be stressed so that would be a deterrent to immunity.

Feeding dry foods IMO is about the worst thing you could do if you are looking for immunity.
Stress from quarantine in a semi-bare tank or from any medications will also suppress immunity, so I feel you have to do all those things if you are trying to get immune fish.

Remember, fish eat pathogens with every meal in the sea. They need this for immunity.

Of course, if we don't mind quarantining and or using medication, then you can have a nice tank but not any immune fish so you would have to keep vigilant about adding any pathogens for the life of the tank.

Stress, of any kind, will shorten the life spans of fish because of cortisol, which I have posted scientific articles about many times.

To me, I don't see any problem aquascaping with natural hiding places as that doesn't cost anything and your tank will look better. Feeding something with gut bacteria may be an issue for some people because I am not sure if "store-bought frozen food" of any type will house living bacteria, because we don't know how old the food is, and at what temperature it was stored. That is why I cultivate live whiteworms, which are practically free. I bought a culture of them 12 or 15 years ago for $15.00 on Amazon and feed them bread. I have all the worms I could use. I also feed my larger fish earthworms that I collect in the summer or buy at a bait shop or Walmart.

I don't see any of this as something difficult. Opening a can of flakes is certainly easy, but then you have the issue of having a temporary tank with no immunity, so you have to keep medications, a hospital tank, and a quarantine tank, which I feel is a lot more work for less healthy fish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't see any of this as something difficult. Opening a can of flakes is certainly easy, but then you have the issue of having a temporary tank with no immunity, so you have to keep medications, a hospital tank, and a quarantine tank, which I feel is a lot more work for less healthy fish.

I'm not suggesting what is easy or not, but I don't keep any of those, and do not consider my fish unhealthy. :)

 

[Paul B]

I'm not suggesting what is easy or not, but I don't keep any of those, and do not consider my fish unhealthy. :)

That's why your fish are healthy.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I've been operated my tank for a while to encourage 3 types of bacteria: 1) Nitrogen reducing bacteria i.e. that are responsible for reducing ammonia to nitrogen gas; 2) Bacteria free in the water column that binds N&P as it uses organics and is then exported i.e. carbon dosing; and 3) Bacteria that is added to reduce algae & organic detritus i.e. Vibrant.

As the tank has matured, I have cut back carbon dosing. I'm down to 18 ml/day of vinegar in a 100 gallon system. That's probably not enough to appreciably reduce nutrients, but I like the idea of free bacteria as food for other organisms in the system. I've also cut the Vibrant dosage to 5ml every other week. I have observed that this small dose helps with water clarity and reduces film build-up on the glass.

Wow. That post did not age well! I'm maybe more experienced now and operate the tank in a very different manner. Just in case the OP or others are still reading this thread, I want to readdress the original question.

Other than live rock, I don't add any products advertised to add or encourage bacteria or work in a probiotic manner for the fish - period. I don't believe they do anything to help the tank, particularly in the long run.