Bacteria maintenance. What do you dose?

[Townes_Van_Camp]

SCTLD

Huh? I don't know what this is.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Huh? I don't know what this is.

Stony coral tissue loss disease (SCTLD) is a highly lethal coral disease that was first reported off the coast of Florida in 2014 and has since spread rapidly throughout the Caribbean. The disease affects over 20 coral species and is now present on reefs in 18 countries and territories.

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

Stony coral tissue loss disease (SCTLD) is a highly lethal coral disease that was first reported off the coast of Florida in 2014 and has since spread rapidly throughout the Caribbean. The disease affects over 20 coral species and is now present on reefs in 18 countries and territories.

Oh very nice.

 

[BrianReefer]

Yeah, it somehow got into my tank through coral purchases and completely wiped out my 8 year old reef, starting over from scratch with new tank in about 2 weeks.

 

[brandon429]

I too had not heard of that. It’s good that anyone found a way to beat dinos they’re such a scourge for us

 

[X-37B]

I add mb-7 once a month when I do my 10% WC. I do it to clearup the tank after disturbing the sand bed and blowing off the rocks.

 

[UtahReefer]

I use the Aquaforest system. I dose AF Bio S once per week, AF ProBio S and -NP Pro daily (carbon dosing), and on occasion, MB Clean.

 

[ScottB]

Tons of fish poo. My answer to many things.

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

Depends on if the bacteria are probiotic or not...if not, I'd say there's no point in adding additional bacteria at any time unless you're having a specific issue. Even with the probiotic bacteria its hard to say they're really beneficial since they're likely outcompeted very quickly. The one product I'm curious about is PNS Probio.

 

[MnFish1]

.

 

[MnFish1]

How about you check that attitude at the door? This thread is about what others are doing as far as bacteria dosing is concerned.

You didn’t answer my question in the slightest bit. You are clearly here to fight with anyone that feels there is a benefit.

Can someone please show me how to mute this person?

I apologize if you think I had an attitude. As a microbiologist - I think I have a bit of expertise - and was merely saying 'I do not think it makes sense to add bacteria'. I'm sorry you consider that 'a fight'. That is the answer to your question.

 

[taricha]

Hi. I am wondering if there were results from Aquabiomics re: bottled bacteria’s effects on biodiversity score.

here's a quick summary of Eli from aquabiomics data and thinking on your questions about bacterial products, gleaned from some interviews...

e) bottled bacterial products
linkq3e
“There’s always a very short list of [bacterial] ingredients, 2 or 3 - maybe some might have 7. Almost none of those seem to persist very long in the aquarium.” and even if they all did, that small number of types would do almost nothing for measured diversity.

linkQ3e2
“The components of bottled bacterial products are not the components of a reef tank microbiome, in a venn diagram there’s little intersection between those two circles. The viewer can interpret that how they wish.”
These products DO have an effect on the microbiome of the tank. These effects are seen over and over. If you dose most bottled bacterial products, you will see a bloom in the family Fusobacteriaceae (one of the families Eli has said increase from carbon dosing). But this family is not a component of the bottled products. A lot of the effects that we see from bottled products probably come from the addition of nutrients in the bottles that feed bacteria resident in the tank already.
It seems they are selecting bacteria for the bottles intended for a specific purpose “consuming ammonia” “degrading polysaccharides form algal cell walls” but having those bacteria become part of the ongoing community is not an expectation and it doesn’t seem to happen.
Eli says he thinks they are overused in the hobby and adding to an established tank is probably not a sensible use of the products.

Q6 Have you tested ____ bacterial product, will you write an article?
LinkQ6
They’ve tested a bunch of products. Probably not going to be an article. He decided that making a bunch of companies mad was not a great business strategy to start with. But he is happy to run tests on products for any hobbyist who wants to know and share - he’s just not going to write an article listing the bacterial ingredients in all the hobby products.

 

[MnFish1]

here's a quick summary of Eli from aquabiomics data and thinking on your questions about bacterial products, gleaned from some interviews...

This goes along with the science that has been published for years/perhaps decades. Added bacteria are either overcome by the existing bacteria - or they take over from the existing bacteria - depending on a number of things. This is why I suggested that adding bacteria is 'not helpful'. PS - At least in my experience when I wanted to test Aquabiomics, I got a discount on samples - so it shouldn't be hard for someone to send tests as 'unknowns' to Aquabiomics.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks @taricha for confirming the science that has been available for years

 

[Paul B]

Yesterday I collected thousands of amphipods and maybe millions of copepods along with some mud and threw it all in my reef. Thats how I dose. :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

I take it from here, under the rocks at low tide. Not that big rock. I can't lift that one yet. :oops:

 

[rsusi]

Unless your tank is really new, I would think there is enough bacteria already in there and adjusted for your bioload. In 20+ years, I've only added bacteria for new setups.

I would say it’s more about the probiotics good for the fishes gut health and immune system and it’s good to diversify your bacteria, there are bacteria’s in the ocean that are not in your tank set up so why not add the most beneficial bacteria’s you can find, corals also eat bacteria and need it to thrive, need purple bacteria too for sure

 

[Ef4life]

Whatever bacteria is on my hand as the go into the water, or whatever bacteria is on or in frozen food

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would say it’s more about the probiotics good for the fishes gut health and immune system and it’s good to diversify your bacteria, there are bacteria’s in the ocean that are not in your tank set up so why not add the most beneficial bacteria’s you can find, corals also eat bacteria and need it to thrive, need purple bacteria too for sure

Much of that paragraph seems to be unsubstantiated opinion, such as corals "need" bacteria and that tanks "need" purple bacteria. The fish gut health impacted by dosing bacteria also seems an opinion without evidence.

 

[Paul B]

The fish gut health impacted by dosing bacteria also seems an opinion without evidence.

I am not sure what kind of evidence we need except that people with natural tanks that feed foods with living gut bacteria never get sick. (I don't mean pro-biotics in a bottle)

We can't say the same of tanks that just feed dry foods.
Just my opinion of course.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am not sure what kind of evidence we need except that people with natural tanks that feed foods with living gut bacteria never get sick. (I don't mean pro-biotics in a bottle)

We can't say the same of tanks that just feed dry foods.
Just my opinion of course.

Uh oh, hit your hot button. Let's hop on this merry go round again.

The person I was responding to made several strong and unlikely to be accurate statements (IMO) that even you likely do not agree with (reef tanks "need" purple bacteria? have you ever added any?).

But focusing on just the fish gut health aspect of this issue and probiotic bacteria feeding or dosing:


Is your lack of fish disease from feeding foods with GI tracts that contain bacteria?

Is it from lack of QT?

Is it from having a low stress tank?

Is it from any of the many other husbandry things you do?

Unless you do all of those and do not feed those gut bacteria, you have no evidence which of these things is important.

Which of these factors made my tank also not have apparent diseases?

Asked more directly:
Do you know of any tank anywhere that does everything you do except it feeds only foods without gut bacteria, and that this tank gets diseases where yours does not?

What evidence? That evidence.

Lacking that, you have a method that works. But you do not know which aspects of that method are important and which are not.