Bacterial Driven System: A Recipe for Success.

[Troylee]

When you pump your stones do you get a milky haze in the tank? I don’t but I was under the assumption I was supposed to

I just started getting that a couple weeks ago… you need to twist handle back and forth and shake the stones very well before pumping it 10-12 times… I only release the mum once a day in my tank also so maybe that’s why…

 

[IntrinsicReef]

Is there acetate in vodka dosing too ?

I just did a quick Google search and it looks like ethanol is the carbon source of vodka. I thought there was another term, but I am far from a chemist. This is from a non-reef related scientific article.
"Ethanol can be used as the sole carbon source for cell growth and product biosynthesis in our engineered strains, but there is still a big gap in the growth rate compared with glucose as the carbon source. Glucose is the most commonly used carbon source in E. coli, which enters the central metabolic pathway through glycolysis"

 

[legalizedreefer]

I just started getting that a couple weeks ago… you need to twist handle back and forth and shake the stones very well before pumping it 10-12 times… I only release the mum once a day in my tank also so maybe that’s why…

Ahh ok. I bought that gimmicky aquavitro reactor that uses a more powerful secondary pump to “rinse” the stones 2 times daily. I have no idea if it works as intended, as I have no visible cloudiness after the rinse cycle. I think that reactor might not actually have enough force to free the stones of the bacteria

 

[Troylee]

Ahh ok. I bought that gimmicky aquavitro reactor that uses a more powerful secondary pump to “rinse” the stones 2 times daily. I have no idea if it works as intended, as I have no visible cloudiness after the rinse cycle. I think that reactor might not actually have enough force to free the stones of the bacteria

You also need really slow flow through it for the bacteria to colonize… I had to play with that for awhile myself.. I run a vertex reactor

 

[Kfactor]

what if i want to try this out but have 18ppm no3 and i have been dosing po4 and read 0

 

[Karliefish]

Can you post a pic? That's probably Plus-NP or Elimi-NP

 

[Karliefish]

Thoughts?

 

[Karliefish]

I believe this is the correct product?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Elimi-NP is made off poly-alcohol.
Somebody who knows what kind of poly-alcohol(s)? And in what concentrations?

Bacteria are selective. Marine bacteria do have marine specific enzymes. Bacteria produce enzymes that allow them to oxidize environmental energy sources; however, the energy sources used by different bacteria depend on the specific enzymes each bacterium produces. That is why it is important to know exactly what is added to the water and in what proportion. For example, pure carbohydrates added to the water column mainly promote the growth of very fast growers only using available ammonia-nitrogen.
Bacteria have a growth strategy depending on the living conditions, which can also be classified according to the r or K growth strategy. Bacteria in the water column generally have an r-strategy, they adapt their growth and decay very quickly to the conditions. Bacteria in a biofilm are generally K-strategists, they are less subject to sudden changes and will respond less quickly to changes; The growth rate is much lower.
The nitrogen source in particular determines which types of bacteria prevail for the available nutritional sources. For example, a bacterium that has this ability grows up to 8 times slower if it is forced to use nitrate-nitrogen for growth than if ammonium-nitrogen is available. Consequently, these heterotrophic bacteria use nitrate-nitrogen only to survive, rarely to grow.
The way they live also determines their growth rate. Heterotrophs can multiply much faster than autotrophs, but they need a lot of food to do so. For example, approximately 40X more biomass is formed by heterophs (needing an organic carbon source) than by autotrophs to reduce the same amount of ammonium. This means that basic nutrients for growth, not just N and P, are redistributed. Fortunately, very fast-growing bacteria also die very quickly. Supposing them to be skimmed off before they die, as proponents of the vodka method assume, would be a disaster.

Depending on the type of sugars and other carbohydrates added, a certain type of bacteria will be favored, with the risk that important and essential species will be suppressed. In any case, adding pure carbohydrates causes an unnatural (im)balance that can cause problems in the long term, sometimes even in the very short term. For example, sessile organisms such as corals, sponges, etc., are very dependent on bacterial growth in their own holobiont, which they actively regulate . It goes without saying to understand the effect of pure carbohydrates on these organisms. Also important is the obvious: What happens if the unnatural supply of organic carbon suddenly stops?

Dosage:
Dose 0.1 ml Tropic Marin Elimi-NP per 100 l aquarium water daily. After two weeks you can increase the dosage by 0.1 ml per 100 l of aquarium water.
Maximum dosage: Do not use more than 0.5 ml per 100 l of aquarium water per day.

What if I use kalkwasser, with or without vinegar?

Does anyone know what measurable parameters the dosage and maximum dosage are based on?
I have calculated the aquarium volume incorrectly: How do I know that I am dosing too much? How side effects will show something is wrong if possible side effects of using the product are not determined and the exact content is unknown. What are the first symptoms of overdosing? Help, what's happening, all my parameters are perfect!?

It is very important to know what is added to the water and in what concentration. What exactly is in the product? Only if one knows this can one estimate the risk. Never add products to your live support system not knowing what they contain.

What do the poly-alcohols added to the water with Elimi-NP consist of? In what concentration?

 

[Karliefish]

Can you post a pic? That's probably Plus-NP or Elimi-NP

Were you able to take a look at the picture I sent you? Many thanks!

 

[kiwiSWE]

Anyone done this with Modern Reef products?

Today I'm dosing 200ml kalkwasser over 24/7 and then every morning I'm dosing 10 ml TM all for reef and 10ml aquaforest Nitraphos minus.

Then I come across this product when I was on Facebook

"ONE-4Reef is a super-concentrated pure organic form of our proportional consumption reef-keeping system in one canister. It contains all necessary trace elements in natural seawater, organic micro-nutrients, and amino acids in one product! Ready to use to maintain a thriving and colorful reef aquarium. Highly concentrated (1L contains 50.160 mg/l calcium and 7.000 °dKH/l). Specially designed to be used with our Reef Keeping System (RKS) but can also be used alone or in aquariums with calcium reactors."

ONE-4Reef 2.5L – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

So I'm thinking and have ask Modern reef about use dose products

C+ (Complex Carbons) 1000ml – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

BIODiversity 500ml – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

 

[Troylee]

Anyone done this with Modern Reef products?

Today I'm dosing 200ml kalkwasser over 24/7 and then every morning I'm dosing 10 ml TM all for reef and 10ml aquaforest Nitraphos minus.

Then I come across this product when I was on Facebook

"ONE-4Reef is a super-concentrated pure organic form of our proportional consumption reef-keeping system in one canister. It contains all necessary trace elements in natural seawater, organic micro-nutrients, and amino acids in one product! Ready to use to maintain a thriving and colorful reef aquarium. Highly concentrated (1L contains 50.160 mg/l calcium and 7.000 °dKH/l). Specially designed to be used with our Reef Keeping System (RKS) but can also be used alone or in aquariums with calcium reactors."

ONE-4Reef 2.5L – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

So I'm thinking and have ask Modern reef about use dose products

C+ (Complex Carbons) 1000ml – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

BIODiversity 500ml – Modern Reef

modernreef.eu

Interesting… I’ve never heard of it honestly.. I’m using all for reef, bacto balance and zeolites in a reactor like Sunny then making zeo milk 2-3 times a week and feeding my tank with diy coral snow. Here’s my concoction..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

. Highly concentrated (1L contains 50.160 mg/l calcium and 7.000 °dKH/l). Specially designed to be used with our Reef Keeping System (RKS) but can also be used alone or in aquariums with calcium reactors."

Again with the dKH/L units. They made a knock off of AFR, and also copied the misuse of units of measure. lol

 

[joaocdestro]

I've been using carbon dosing for 14 years, I have a mixed reef system.

Has anyone managed to control the increase in phosphate with just carbon dosing?

For example: -To keep No3 in check I use 7ml of vodka per day in 240 gallons...
But by dosing 7ml of vodka I notice that the Po4 slowly rises.

So I was thinking about dosing Calcium Nitrate to keep the No3 between 1 and 20, and increasing vodka to 14ml per day... with the aim of making more bacteria to export the Po4.

What do you think about this?

 

[Troylee]

I've been using carbon dosing for 14 years, I have a mixed reef system.

Has anyone managed to control the increase in phosphate with just carbon dosing?

For example: -To keep No3 in check I use 7ml of vodka per day in 240 gallons...
But by dosing 7ml of vodka I notice that the Po4 slowly rises.

So I was thinking about dosing Calcium Nitrate to keep the No3 between 1 and 20, and increasing vodka to 14ml per day... with the aim of making more bacteria to export the Po4.

What do you think about this?

Use some phosphate e to reduce your p04 to the number you want while your n03 is in a range you want and switch from vodka to bacto balance and it should stay in line.. it’s an amazing product and works well for me.. my numbers stay low and inline.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Has anyone managed to control the increase in phosphate with just carbon dosing?

Many people use GFO along with organic carbon dosing. I did.

 

[DaveC]

Were you able to take a look at the picture I sent you? Many thanks!

Sorry for the late reply, that sure is bacto-balance. I've not seen it come like that though.

 

[joaocdestro]

Use some phosphate e to reduce your p04 to the number you want while your n03 is in a range you want and switch from vodka to bacto balance and it should stay in line.. it’s an amazing product and works well for me.. my numbers stay low and inline.

Do you think elimi-np tropic will remove more phosphate than simply vodka?
I believe the export of Po4 will be bacteria... somewat related to redfield ratio 16:1

 

[joaocdestro]

Many people use GFO along with organic carbon dosing. I did.

Yes I use GFO actually, I was wondering to reduce the GFO consumption (in Brazil it's imported from US and very expensive)

 

[Troylee]

Do you think elimi-np tropic will remove more phosphate than simply vodka?
I believe the export of Po4 will be bacteria... somewat related to redfield ratio 16:1

I don’t play with ratios.. I just keep them stable and low for the most part.. the tank processes it and I just sit back and watch.