Bacterial Driven System: A Recipe for Success.

SunnyX

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EDIT 10/20/2023

Well, the system has preformed beyond expectations and grown corals quicker than what I would have imagined
.

You can read about the "Bacteria-Powered Reef" in the latest issue of Reef Hobbyist Magazine.


RHM.jpg




Original article: http://reefsite.com/bacterial-driven-system-a-recipe-for-success/

It’s no secret that I am a big fan of carbon dosing. I believe that it has played a large part in my success over the years. No other method that I have employed has produced the results exhibited via carbon dosing and bacterial additions to the system. The one two punch of nutrient export and coral nourishing properties is very hard to beat. Yes, there are other system that work but, in my experience, they require too much work for less than desirable outcomes. That is, when stacked against my experiences with carbon dosing. I have run the gamut of nutrient control from chemical (GFO) to natural (Refugium) and while they all lowered my nutrients not a single one fed my corals. Yes, the system in comparison to one carbon dosed was just as clean but the corals did not exhibit the same amount of growth as measured in a carbon dosed system.

I paint a rosy picture here but it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Carbon dosing requires a good understanding of your system, and should be left to intermediate and experienced reefers. This method can quickly reduce your nutrients, shocking corals into a rapid tissue necrosis event. I have never suffered such an issue but it is important to point it out. As with any new method or change, one must start slow, observe, and gradually increase dosage. As we dig into the system, I will lay out some of the benefits and issues with dosing carbon and bacteria. I will also share my opinion on the matter and why I believe that even after all these years since I first started using and recommending it, carbon dosing is still my preferred method of reefing.

I will preface what follows by stating that I am not a scientist. Everything I write is based on personal experience. I have setup and maintained a number of award winning and successful reef aquariums but am by no way an expert on the matter. If the science looks funny to you or have a better method please by all means chime in or reach out directly to me. I am simply passing down my methods as I believe that replication is often the best course of action when attempting to build success. You take the best practices of those whom you would like to emulate and make it your own, adding and subtracting along the way. There have been many articles written on the subject, quite a few with much more detail and science. This is simply my take and philosophy on the matter. In this hobby and as in life, we are all students and constantly learning.


The Basics and Benefits

So, you’ve read this far so its safe to assume that I have peaked your interest. No doubt it was likely the images of my aquariums that led you in on this endeavor. Fundamentally, I believe that carbon dosing has helped me immensely and allowed for much success with SPS ushering in unprecedented growth and coloration. This is not a new system though. I have been leveraging bacteria and carbon dosing for 17+ years now, and I believe that KZ Zeovit has been doing it for even longer. Provided that you are careful and fully commit to the aquariums success, carbon dosing with be one of the greatest of tools in your arsenal.

I believe that carbon dosing is misunderstood. Far too many assume that it is simply a method of reducing nutrients. While this system of dosing will reduce nutrients, its primary benefit is the nutritional component and what it can do for your corals. Many are often shocked when told that I generally only feed flakes and pellets into my system. I do not add any of the myriad of coral food options. I feel that feeding these foods is a waste of time and money when you already have everything you need present in the system. You simply need to key in on that component and leverage it for maximum success. The component I am speaking of is bacteria.

The way the cycle works

carbon is dosed>bacteria multiply>nutrients are consumed>corals feed on bacteria>remaining bacteria is exported via a protein skimmer.

Nutrition in, nutrients out. That is what we are trying to accomplish here. Corals can derive 100% of their nutritional requirements through the absorption of Nitrate and phosphate, of which most systems have plenty of to go around. The key here is to get it into a form that the corals can absorb. By carbon and bacteria dosing we are increasing the number of bacteria in the system, which in turn will feed on the nutrients allowing for the corals to consume the bacteria. The final step in the process is for the skimmer to export the remaining bacteria. This final step is key. I would not recommend carbon dosing without a skimmer. Multiplying bacteria will reduce oxygen levels in an aquarium and a skimmer is a good way to offset this reduction. Secondly, the excess bacteria much be removed from the system, lest it be allowed to complete its lifecycle a, releasing stored nutrients back into the system.

The dosing itself it fairly straight forward. Simply follow the instructions on the bottle(s) and dose accordingly. I dose bacteria and carbon at first light, just as soon as the lights have turned on. This ensures that I am hitting the photosynthetic process in stride, reducing the likelihood that I will run into an issue due to a limitation of oxygen. I also want to have the least impact on Ph as possible. During daylight, organisms in the aquarium absorb C02 while at the same time increasing PH. Dosing late in the day is not recommended simply due to the decreased amount of oxygen in the aquarium available at that time. I do not turn off my skimmer or adjust any of my filtration systems when dosing. I will generally dose all of my supplements during this same time period without issue. The fish are also fed at this time of day as part of their twice daily feeding schedule.

It cannot be overstated that you must start out slowly with this system. I would recommend that you dose 25% of the recommended dosages as instructed on the bottle(s), moving up 5% daily until you have reached 100% of the recommended dosages. At first, you will not see a major change and that may be discouraging but give it time. Soon enough, you will start to see increased and/or darker skimmate, increased polyp extension on corals, increase in days required before cleaning the aquarium viewing panes, and possibly having to change the filter socks (if used) on a more frequent basis. At around the 3-4 week mark you should notice a quantifiable difference in the nutrients and coral growth and appearance.

During this initial phase, and at the one-month mark, care must be taken to observe the corals and overall system. Any changes in coral coloration should be noted and adjustments should be made based on your observations and Nitrate/phosphate tests. If corals have not lightened up in appearance and nutrients are still at a higher than expected level you will need to continue increasing the dose until the desired parameters are reached.

Overdosing is common and care must be taken here.

Some telltale sign that you are dosing too much carbon:

  • Corals(SPS) exhibiting extremely light and pastel coloration.
  • Red slime making an appearance and growing*. (SEE NOTE BELOW)
  • Nutrient levels completely bottoming out to zero.
  • Complete slowdown or sudden halt of growth on corals, especially SPS, evident with a lack of white growth tips.
While we do want nutrients to be low, we never want them so low that they are undetectable. Nutrients are an important component in any reef system and a balance must be maintained. If not, you will run into issues such as starving corals and opportunistic algae’s and slimes taking hold. Concerning red slime, in carbon dosed systems with will make an appearance when there is an imbalance in the ratio of nitrate to phosphate.

Corals cannot utilize nitrate without phosphates present. This fact, amongst others has made me switch from vodka to a more balanced approach, one that will help maintain the balance. To help achieve this balance I dose Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance as a carbon source. This source of carbon helps the bacteria to reproduce while ensuring that the correct ratio of nutrients is added to the aquarium. NP-Bacto is a mixture of carbon, nitrates and phosphates. If you are starting out with higher than desirable levels then I would start off with the Elimi-Bacto and once nutrient levels have reached the desired level, switch over to NP-Bacto to retain the balance.

This is the simplest method that I have found for maintaining the correct ration of nitrate and phosphate as you can quickly deplete a system of the aforementioned nutrients, which can and will result in undesirable outcomes. Vodka, sugar and even vinegar will work as carbon source but all eventually gave me cyanobacteria at some point in time. However, With Bacto-Balance, in two years of use I have yet to encounter a major issue with cyanobacteria or the sprouting of other undesirable algae. The second benefit of using Bacto-balance versus a DIY mixture is that I have been able to maintain an equilibrium of nutrients in the system without encountering issues such as the lighting of corals or reduced growth due to a lack of nutrients.


Toss Out the Coral Food?

Out of all of the benefits of carbon dosing, the feeding of the corals is my favorite feature. No other system I have used has provided this amount of growth and at such a cost-effective basis. Just think of how much money is spent on foods designed to feed corals. Many of which were never even designed for consumption by the corals. Here you have bacteria, something that is cheap and easy to reproduce, that will be readily eaten by the corals and is in lock step with their evolution and biology. Throw in the nutrient reduction component of dosing and you have a one two punch that is unmatched in the hobby. If you have fish in the aquarium and are already feeding them a balanced diet then you should have no need for coral specific food. The great thing about carbon dosing is that it will allow for you to feed much more food to the fish without impacting your overall system stability. The additional food will in turn fuel more rapid growth in the coral and likely the fish.

I know, it may run counter to everything reefers are told these days but I am proof that you do not need a steady stream of coral food(s) to grow corals and have success in the hobby. Save the money that would have gone towards coral food and invest in an ATO system, Kalk reactor, better skimmer or a higher quality fish food. But hey, if you are happy with the coral foods then by all means continue using them as this system here will only serve to compliment it as you will now be able to feed even more food. The coral food comments here are not scripture, and are simply my opinion and experience with them.



Considerations

Above all else, ensure that you have a properly sized skimmer. Without one, you not succeed with this method, or worse yet, may crash your system. Concerning media and other filtration I would only use carbon. Keep GFO and any other phosphate binding media out of your system as it will only lead to instability as it competes with the bacteria for nutrients.

I have already mentioned it but must state it again for emphasis: you MUST FEED YOUR SYSTEM PROPERLY! I can’t tell you how much food to feed your fish, it must come from your own observations and best judgement. If your corals are too light in coloration and/or lacking polyp extension; feed the system.

Who is this system designed for?

Depending on how its dosed and the amount of carbon and food inputted into the system this method can be applicable across all setups. LPS, Softy and SPS systems will derive benefit from carbon dosing. The caveat here is that you would be dosing less than recommended on LPS and softy setups as they generally tend to enjoy a bit more nutrients in the water. SPS on the other hand will thrive under this system at the recommended dosages.

There is a fine line of balance that must be followed. To cross that line of having too much or too little nutrients would invite trouble into your system. If I had to choose a side of the scale to fall on it would be the higher nutrients. While higher nutrients can bring about nuisance algae and if high enough, inhibit coral growth, too low of a nutrient level can absolutely crash a system. Care must be taken to properly feed the fish and system. Often times people who fail with this method do so because they have not properly feed the system and have bottomed out phosphate and nitrate.

Overall, I do not see much harm in trying this method out so long as you are conscientious and start up slowly. Keep an eye on your nutrients, corals and adjust from there. For those who have long struggled with nutrients and a lack of coral growth, this may very well be the missing piece of the puzzle.

.



Updated image 03/11/2023
3B0007FD-84B3-4B4A-8730-3BBE76D46692.jpeg
 
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Steve2020

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Excellent writeup Sonny. I have been dosing a DIY carbon source for the last 4-5 months. I have been dosing 30ml for 250gal total water volume to maintain a 9-10ppm NO3. My PO4 never gets above 3ppm and I have do dose 2ml of my DIY PO4 solution every day which is adding 2ppm PO4 to maintain a 2-3ppm. My tank seems to be Phosphate dependent. Prior to dosing carbon my levels were fluctuating between 15-18ppm NO3 and .08-.12ppm PO4 which was not a big deal since at that time I only had LPS and softies. I started adding carbon slowly (10ml) until I reached full dose of 30ml per day. After about 2 months my tank became stable at current parameters as mention above and I started adding Acros. So far so good.
Question for you is I was originally carbon dosing all at once first thing in the morning but was seeing a large drop in Redox and also a small drop in PH. Over the last 2 weeks I am now dosing 2.5ml every 2hrs during a 24hr day with my dosing unit and I no longer see this drop. You recommend not dosing at lights out so should I only dose lets say 2.5ml every hour for 12hrs the lights are on? I have some other comments/questions but I will wait a little while for those.
 
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SunnyX

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Excellent writeup Sonny. I have been dosing a DIY carbon source for the last 4-5 months. I have been dosing 30ml for 250gal total water volume to maintain a 9-10ppm NO3. My PO4 never gets above 3ppm and I have do dose 2ml of my DIY PO4 solution every day which is adding 2ppm PO4 to maintain a 2-3ppm. My tank seems to be Phosphate dependent. Prior to dosing carbon my levels were fluctuating between 15-18ppm NO3 and .08-.12ppm PO4 which was not a big deal since at that time I only had LPS and softies. I started adding carbon slowly (10ml) until I reached full dose of 30ml per day. After about 2 months my tank became stable at current parameters as mention above and I started adding Acros. So far so good.
Question for you is I was originally carbon dosing all at once first thing in the morning but was seeing a large drop in Redox and also a small drop in PH. Over the last 2 weeks I am now dosing 2.5ml every 2hrs during a 24hr day with my dosing unit and I no longer see this drop. You recommend not dosing at lights out so should I only dose lets say 2.5ml every hour for 12hrs the lights are on? I have some other comments/questions but I will wait a little while for those.

Hello,

Yes, preferably you will always want to dose during lights on. I am not sure what you are using for a carbon source, but with the NP-Bacto dosed at first light I do not see any adverse reactions with my ph.

Give it a shot over the 12 hour period and let us know how you end up.
 

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Original article: http://reefsite.com/bacterial-driven-system-a-recipe-for-success/

It’s no secret that I am a big fan of carbon dosing. I believe that it has played a large part in my success over the years. No other method that I have employed has produced the results exhibited via carbon dosing and bacterial additions to the system. The one two punch of nutrient export and coral nourishing properties is very hard to beat. Yes, there are other system that work but, in my experience, they require too much work for less than desirable outcomes. That is, when stacked against my experiences with carbon dosing. I have run the gamut of nutrient control from chemical (GFO) to natural (Refugium) and while they all lowered my nutrients not a single one fed my corals. Yes, the system in comparison to one carbon dosed was just as clean but the corals did not exhibit the same amount of growth as measured in a carbon dosed system.

I paint a rosy picture here but it’s not all sunshine and rainbows. Carbon dosing requires a good understanding of your system, and should be left to intermediate and experienced reefers. This method can quickly reduce your nutrients, shocking corals into a rapid tissue necrosis event. I have never suffered such an issue but it is important to point it out. As with any new method or change, one must start slow, observe, and gradually increase dosage. As we dig into the system, I will lay out some of the benefits and issues with dosing carbon and bacteria. I will also share my opinion on the matter and why I believe that even after all these years since I first started using and recommending it, carbon dosing is still my preferred method of reefing.

I will preface what follows by stating that I am not a scientist. Everything I write is based on personal experience. I have setup and maintained a number of award winning and successful reef aquariums but am by no way an expert on the matter. If the science looks funny to you or have a better method please by all means chime in or reach out directly to me. I am simply passing down my methods as I believe that replication is often the best course of action when attempting to build success. You take the best practices of those whom you would like to emulate and make it your own, adding and subtracting along the way. There have been many articles written on the subject, quite a few with much more detail and science. This is simply my take and philosophy on the matter. In this hobby and as in life, we are all students and constantly learning.


The Basics and Benefits

So, you’ve read this far so its safe to assume that I have peaked your interest. No doubt it was likely the images of my aquariums that led you in on this endeavor. Fundamentally, I believe that carbon dosing has helped me immensely and allowed for much success with SPS ushering in unprecedented growth and coloration. This is not a new system though. I have been leveraging bacteria and carbon dosing for 17+ years now, and I believe that KZ Zeovit has been doing it for even longer. Provided that you are careful and fully commit to the aquariums success, carbon dosing with be one of the greatest of tools in your arsenal.

I believe that carbon dosing is misunderstood. Far too many assume that it is simply a method of reducing nutrients. While this system of dosing will reduce nutrients, its primary benefit is the nutritional component and what it can do for your corals. Many are often shocked when told that I generally only feed flakes and pellets into my system. I do not add any of the myriad of coral food options. I feel that feeding these foods is a waste of time and money when you already have everything you need present in the system. You simply need to key in on that component and leverage it for maximum success. The component I am speaking of is bacteria.

The way the cycle works

carbon is dosed>bacteria multiply>nutrients are consumed>corals feed on bacteria>remaining bacteria is exported via a protein skimmer.

Nutrition in, nutrients out. That is what we are trying to accomplish here. Corals can derive 100% of their nutritional requirements through the absorption of Nitrate and phosphate, of which most systems have plenty of to go around. The key here is to get it into a form that the corals can absorb. By carbon and bacteria dosing we are increasing the number of bacteria in the system, which in turn will feed on the nutrients allowing for the corals to consume the bacteria. The final step in the process is for the skimmer to export the remaining bacteria. This final step is key. I would not recommend carbon dosing without a skimmer. Multiplying bacteria will reduce oxygen levels in an aquarium and a skimmer is a good way to offset this reduction. Secondly, the excess bacteria much be removed from the system, lest it be allowed to complete its lifecycle a, releasing stored nutrients back into the system.

The dosing itself it fairly straight forward. Simply follow the instructions on the bottle(s) and dose accordingly. I dose bacteria and carbon at first light, just as soon as the lights have turned on. This ensures that I am hitting the photosynthetic process in stride, reducing the likelihood that I will run into an issue due to a limitation of oxygen. I also want to have the least impact on Ph as possible. During daylight, organisms in the aquarium absorb C02 while at the same time increasing PH. Dosing late in the day is not recommended simply due to the decreased amount of oxygen in the aquarium available at that time. I do not turn off my skimmer or adjust any of my filtration systems when dosing. I will generally dose all of my supplements during this same time period without issue. The fish are also fed at this time of day as part of their twice daily feeding schedule.

It cannot be overstated that you must start out slowly with this system. I would recommend that you dose 25% of the recommended dosages as instructed on the bottle(s), moving up 5% daily until you have reached 100% of the recommended dosages. At first, you will not see a major change and that may be discouraging but give it time. Soon enough, you will start to see increased and/or darker skimmate, increased polyp extension on corals, increase in days required before cleaning the aquarium viewing panes, and possibly having to change the filter socks (if used) on a more frequent basis. At around the 3-4 week mark you should notice a quantifiable difference in the nutrients and coral growth and appearance.

During this initial phase, and at the one-month mark, care must be taken to observe the corals and overall system. Any changes in coral coloration should be noted and adjustments should be made based on your observations and Nitrate/phosphate tests. If corals have not lightened up in appearance and nutrients are still at a higher than expected level you will need to continue increasing the dose until the desired parameters are reached.

Overdosing is common and care must be taken here.

Some telltale sign that you are dosing too much carbon:

  • Corals(SPS) exhibiting extremely light and pastel coloration.
  • Red slime making an appearance and growing*. (SEE NOTE BELOW)
  • Nutrient levels completely bottoming out to zero.
  • Complete slowdown or sudden halt of growth on corals, especially SPS, evident with a lack of white growth tips.
While we do want nutrients to be low, we never want them so low that they are undetectable. Nutrients are an important component in any reef system and a balance must be maintained. If not, you will run into issues such as starving corals and opportunistic algae’s and slimes taking hold. Concerning red slime, in carbon dosed systems with will make an appearance when there is an imbalance in the ratio of nitrate to phosphate.

An ideal ratio of 16 to 1 should be maintained (16 parts nitrate to 1 part phosphate). Corals cannot utilize nitrate without phosphates present. This fact, amongst others has made me switch from vodka to a more balanced approach, one that will help maintain the balance. To help achieve this balance I dose Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance as a carbon source. This source of carbon helps the bacteria to reproduce while ensuring that the correct ratio of nutrients is added to the aquarium. This is the simplest method that I have found for maintaining the correct ration of nitrate and phosphate as you can quickly deplete a system of the aforementioned nutrients, which can and will result in undesirable outcomes. Vodka, sugar and even vinegar will work as carbon source but all eventually gave me cyanobacteria at some point in time. However, With Bacto-Balance, in two years of use I have yet to encounter a major issue with cyanobacteria or the sprouting of other undesirable algae. The second benefit of using Bacto-balance versus a DIY mixture is that I have been able to maintain an equilibrium of nutrients in the system without encountering issues such as the lighting of corals or reduced growth due to a lack of nutrients.


Toss Out the Coral Food?

Out of all of the benefits of carbon dosing, the feeding of the corals is my favorite feature. No other system I have used has provided this amount of growth and at such a cost-effective basis. Just think of how much money is spent on foods designed to feed corals. Many of which were never even designed for consumption by the corals. Here you have bacteria, something that is cheap and easy to reproduce, that will be readily eaten by the corals and is in lock step with their evolution and biology. Throw in the nutrient reduction component of dosing and you have a one two punch that is unmatched in the hobby. If you have fish in the aquarium and are already feeding them a balanced diet then you should have no need for coral specific food. The great thing about carbon dosing is that it will allow for you to feed much more food to the fish without impacting your overall system stability. The additional food will in turn fuel more rapid growth in the coral and likely the fish.

I know, it may run counter to everything reefers are told these days but I am proof that you do not need a steady stream of coral food(s) to grow corals and have success in the hobby. Save the money that would have gone towards coral food and invest in an ATO system, Kalk reactor, better skimmer or a higher quality fish food. But hey, if you are happy with the coral foods then by all means continue using them as this system here will only serve to compliment it as you will now be able to feed even more food. The coral food comments here are not scripture, and are simply my opinion and experience with them.



Considerations

Above all else, ensure that you have a properly sized skimmer. Without one, you not succeed with this method, or worse yet, may crash your system. Concerning media and other filtration I would only use carbon. Keep GFO and any other phosphate binding media out of your system as it will only lead to instability as it competes with the bacteria for nutrients.

I have already mentioned it but must state it again for emphasis: you MUST FEED YOUR SYSTEM PROPERLY! I can’t tell you how much food to feed your fish, it must come from your own observations and best judgement. If your corals are too light in coloration and/or lacking polyp extension; feed the system.

Who is this system designed for?

Depending on how its dosed and the amount of carbon and food inputted into the system this method can be applicable across all setups. LPS, Softy and SPS systems will derive benefit from carbon dosing. The caveat here is that you would be dosing less than recommended on LPS and softy setups as they generally tend to enjoy a bit more nutrients in the water. SPS on the other hand will thrive under this system at the recommended dosages.

There is a fine line of balance that must be followed. To cross that line of having too much or too little nutrients would invite trouble into your system. If I had to choose a side of the scale to fall on it would be the higher nutrients. While higher nutrients can bring about nuisance algae and if high enough, ****** coral growth, too low of a nutrient level can absolutely crash a system. Care must be taken to properly feed the fish and system. Often times people who fail with this method do so because they have not properly feed the system and have bottomed out phosphate and nitrate.

Overall, I do not see much harm in trying this method out so long as you are conscientious and start up slowly. Keep an eye on your nutrients, corals and adjust from there. For those who have long struggled with nutrients and a lack of coral growth, this may very well be the missing piece of the puzzle.

.
Well you got me I’m gonna place my order right now. I’ve read a lot about carbon dosing but never have done it in the 10 years I’ve been in this hobby I also have not had very good Coral growth seems like my corals have always been starving even with 15 to 20 nitrates and .1-.2 Phosphates most likely it’s because I’m not giving the corals the proper form I’m guessing carbon dosing may be what I’m missing and have been for a long time. I have questioned a few times about my bacteria population being gone or dormant due to a 10 year old tank but I felt like if the bacteria was gone my nutrients would be way higher so I just assume they’re working properly but I’m gonna give this a try and post back in a month or so
 

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Hello,

Yes, preferably you will always want to dose during lights on. I am not sure what you are using for a carbon source, but with the NP-Bacto dosed at first light I do not see any adverse reactions with my ph.

Give it a shot over the 12 hour period and let us know how you end up.
PH only dropped .02. Not a big deal but the Redox would drop from 310 to 225. I will change my schedule to dose only when lights are on. My DIY carbon source for 1000ml of solution is 500ml vinegar, 375ml vodka and 125ml RODI. From what I understand it is similar to NoPox.
 

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Reading through this post, I think the Tropic Marin NP Bacto option would be best for me considering my tank. However, I looked it up with the supplier I use and they have something similar but different - Fauna Marin Coral Balance. Does this look like it works similarly? It doesn't seem to mention nitrates

 

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Just received my Bacto balance 2 days ago and nutrients were in line with the directions on Bacto balance, so I already started dosing after lights come on. As I mentioned, I’ve been dosing Microbacter 7 once a week so will stick with that for now. Do you hand dose or use a doser?
 

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Hi Sunny, hey my nutrients stay in good ranges with my current import export process including skimmer and refugium. Corals seem to be flourishing also. Do you see any further benefit afforded to me by trying carbon dosing?
 

Steve2020

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Sonny, you mentioned the 16:1 N to P ratio. I have read a lot about it in the past and never made sense to me.
Example: A lot of reefers try to keep their NO3 around 5-10ppm, that equates to a PO4 of .3125- .625ppm which is extremely high. Even if you kept NO3 at 1ppm that would be .06ppm PO4. Just does not seem correct to me. What am I missing here?
 

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Great write up although i find it slightly misleading as the write up is based on dosing organic carbon and the product mentioned is not “ just “ organic carbon. This could confuse less experienced reefer in thinking that all is needed is a source of organic carbon. The way that I interpret the product is that there is also nitrogen and phosphorus in the mix with organic carbon and a addition of trace elements.
 
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Great write up although i find it slightly misleading as the write up is based on dosing organic carbon and the product mentioned is not “ just “ organic carbon. This could confuse less experienced reefer in thinking that all is needed is a source of organic carbon. The way that I interpret the product is that there is also nitrogen and phosphorus in the mix with organic carbon and a addition of trace elements.

Hello,

I appreciate the feedback. I ha listed that the NP bacto does add nutrients but should have clarified as to exactly what was being added. I will also include a note that unless your levels are currently at the desired level, you should go with something like the Tropic Marin Elimi Bacto as it does not contain nutrients.
 

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I'm a big fan of carbon dosing myself because of the bacterioplankton population it builds for the corals to consume as a natural food source. This is why I'm opposed to UV sterilization with only a few exceptions because it kills these bacteria. Personally I oppose basically any piece of equipment or system that promotes a sterile environment.
 
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Sonny, you mentioned the 16:1 N to P ratio. I have read a lot about it in the past and never made sense to me.
Example: A lot of reefers try to keep their NO3 around 5-10ppm, that equates to a PO4 of .3125- .625ppm which is extremely high. Even if you kept NO3 at 1ppm that would be .06ppm PO4. Just does not seem correct to me. What am I missing here?

Hello,

I won’t dig too deep into it as I am not a scientist, but the ratio I believe refers to the makeup of the creatures and not specifically the water.

The reason as to why I brought it up was in reference to the NP-Bacto Balance and why I believe it is the best way to dose carbon. From my experience, carbon dosing has a tendency to quickly eat up nitrates in a disproportionate level when compared to phosphates. Adding nitrates back to the system each time I carbon dose helps to maintain the balance.

Perhaps @sixty_reefer can chime in as I believe he has written extensively on the Redfield ratio and it’s applications in the hobby.

-Sonny
 
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SunnyX

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Reading through this post, I think the Tropic Marin NP Bacto option would be best for me considering my tank. However, I looked it up with the supplier I use and they have something similar but different - Fauna Marin Coral Balance. Does this look like it works similarly? It doesn't seem to mention nitrates


Hello,

This product sounds like the DIY a coral Snow I wrote about. you don’t specifically have to use the Tropic Marin version. I am not sponsored by anyone so feel free to use what you’d like. There are many DIY formulas out there, including plain old vodka. You‘ll just need to take extra care to feed enough food into the system so that nutrients do not bottom out.

Here is a helpful article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
 
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Just received my Bacto balance 2 days ago and nutrients were in line with the directions on Bacto balance, so I already started dosing after lights come on. As I mentioned, I’ve been dosing Microbacter 7 once a week so will stick with that for now. Do you hand dose or use a doser?

Hi again!

With the exception of my Kalkwasser which is dosed via a Tunze ATO, I dose and feed everything else by hand. I feel that this keeps me in tune with my reef and helps me to spot issues before they become major problems. Besides, what else would I do if everything was automated? :p
 
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Hi Sunny, hey my nutrients stay in good ranges with my current import export process including skimmer and refugium. Corals seem to be flourishing also. Do you see any further benefit afforded to me by trying carbon dosing?

Hello,

If you’re locked in and everything is doing well I wouldn’t change a thing.
 

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Hello,

I appreciate the feedback. I ha listed that the NP bacto does add nutrients but should have clarified as to exactly what was being added. I will also include a note that unless your levels are currently at the desired level, you should go with something like the Tropic Marin Elimi Bacto as it does not contain nutrients.
Hopefully you didn’t took the comment in a bad way as it’s not my intention, this products are really good imo, I believe the replace nitrates and phosphates with more desirable nutrients for coral like nitrogen and phosphorus that are more easily assimilated by coral, I just tough that was good to add that there is a really good method behind the it that improves the organism in the tank
 

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Hello,

I won’t dig too deep into it as I am not a scientist, but the ratio I believe refers to the makeup of the creatures and not specifically the water.

The reason as to why I brought it up was in reference to the NP-Bacto Balance and why I believe it is the best way to dose carbon. From my experience, carbon dosing has a tendency to quickly eat up nitrates in a disproportionate level when compared to phosphates. Adding nitrates back to the system each time I carbon dose helps to maintain the balance.

Perhaps @sixty_reefer can chime in as I believe he has written extensively on the Redfield ratio and it’s applications in the hobby.

-Sonny
You may get me in trouble here again :) I don’t know if you have noticed that most of what I’ve wrote is being suppressed, I understand that there may be a reason behind as it may confuse less experienced folks in the hobby. I will try and chime in my opinion on the subject that is by no means scientific.

the 16:1 ratio is most likely the preferred ratio by heterotrophic bacteria and other organisms for nitrogen and phosphorus this ratio may aid to the reduction of build up residual nitrates and phosphates. I believe that there is a ratio on the C N P level of availability of nutrients that won’t be translated to residual No3 and Po4 this nutrient that we can test is mainly what’s not been utilised by bacteria and other organisms.
If this products are delivering nutrients in a close balance with the preference of our tank inhabitants preferences this will aid growth and reduce unused residual aiding for stability.
Many carbon dosing manufacturers will tell you that they’re products will reduce nutrients in that ratio or a similar ratio for those same reasons.

I can’t even share this thread that doesn’t mention ratios or redfield once, just some information I believe it’s important on organisms and mechanical filtration influences on residual Nitrates and Phosphates on some of they’re limitations.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sixty’s-understanding-of-nutrients-2-0.916975/page-2#post-10312444
 
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Many are often shocked when told that I generally only feed flakes and pellets into my system. I do not add any of the myriad of coral food options. I feel that feeding these foods is a waste of time and money when you already have everything you need present in the system.
Sunny, apologies for going a little off topic, but I’m curious about what you “do” feed your fish. You said only flakes and pellets. They look really healthy and happy. Guess that is part of the nutrient in question. Can you tell us which ones you prefer?

Jetson
 

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