Battery Backup

[VintageReefer]

What about this guy?

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I dont use amaz... so my options are limited.

Looks like a nice unit. Standard price for a 300 watt hour. Runtime will depend on what you connect

 

[Malcontent]

It is simulated sine wave whatever that means

That could be the problem. I have 5 CyberPower UPSes and all but the first one are the pure sine wave models. Some devices just don't like simulated sine waves.

 

[B&CinB.C.]

FYI the cyberpower 850 is approx 95 watt hours and the 1500 is 108 watt hours

If you want to calculate a runtime duration you need to know the watt hours

Then the formula is

(Ups watt hours x .85) / watt load of devices

If using the $200 cyberpower 1500 and you have a 25w pump then the duration is
(108 x .85) / 25 = 3.6 hours.

If using the $210 ecoflow river 3 plus
(286 x .85) / 25 = 9.7 hours

If using the $350 big blue cellpowa 600
Which comes with a solar panel for free at this time…
(600 x .85) / 25 = 20.4 hours

The $400 seedevil
(1132 x .85) / 25 = 38 hours

The $600 SeeDevil
(2131 x .85) / 25 = 72 hours

You can pick what you need and can afford but there’s is no reason to pick the cyberpower over the ecoflow river 3 plus for only 10$ more
Looks like a nice unit. Standard price for a 300 watt hour. Runtime will depend on what you connect

The Ecoflow is available here and it will cost about $50 more to my door. Not too bad . The Predator looks interesting but I'm not sure about cost or availability in Canada . The nice thing about the Cyberpower is the tower design fits really well where I have it and the tank is in the middle of the living room and doesn't look bad at all. I bought it at Costco so returning it shouldn't be a problem. I'll have to consider my options and make a deciision Thanks all for your help

 

[B&CinB.C.]

That could be the problem. I have 5 CyberPower UPSes and all but the first one are the pure sine wave models. Some devices just don't like simulated sine waves.

Thanks I'm not really sure what the difference is

 

[Tamberav]

Reminder that these devices can cause fires, (potentially made worse by saltwater environment) so be sure to buy from a reputable company. This popped up today.

 

[B&CinB.C.]

Thanks That's good advice

Reminder that these devices can cause fires, (potentially made worse by saltwater environment) so be sure to buy from a reputable company. This popped up today.

 

[B&CinB.C.]

The Ecoflow is available here and is about $50 more to my door . Not too bad. The Predator looks interesting but I'm not sure about cost or availability in Canada . The nice thing about the Cyberpower is the tower design fits really well where I have it and the tank is in the middle of the living room and doesn't look bad at all . I bought it at Costco so returning it shouldn't be a problem . I'll have to consider my options and make a decision . Thanks all for your help .

 

[Reefering1]

These are all fire/explosion hazzards by the very nature of their lithium batteries. Especially around salt water. Submerging one almost guarantees a fire that water can't put out. See it a few times every year around here. People buy these things to be prepared for hurricane season, then we get hit and flood waters come in and it's a deadly situation. Not just these battery backups, but golf carts/ electric cars etc. Sla batteries don't have this problem, doesn't even have to be a "fancy" agm. But agm batteries are the best.
15w for 30 hours? These things are toys. My system consisting of a apc smart ups1500 connected to 4 (100ah/20hr each) agm batteries runs my entire tank(about 750w) for 18 hours. I can add as many as i want. The ups charges/ conditions them. But a seperate charger will be faster.They have been in use for about 5 years now and performed flawlessly this last season. I normally plug my TV and a lamp into it with the tanks until the storm passes. The unit itself looks nice and the batteries have a 20' cord. Currently setting up a cabinet in the garage for them. You can connect a computer to it and set up which outlets turn off when on battery(if any).

 

[Malcontent]

Thanks I'm not really sure what the difference is

https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/products/backup-power-ups-surge-it-power-distribution/backup-power-ups/pure-sine-wave-vs--modified-sine-wave-explained.html

If you have problems running a device and the UPS, generator, or inverter isn't "pure sine wave" then that could be the issue.

 

[areefer01]

These are all fire/explosion hazzards by the very nature of their lithium batteries. Especially around salt water. Submerging one almost guarantees a fire that water can't put out. See it a few times every year around here. People buy these things to be prepared for hurricane season, then we get hit and flood waters come in and it's a deadly situation. Not just these battery backups, but golf carts/ electric cars etc. Sla batteries don't have this problem, doesn't even have to be a "fancy" agm. But agm batteries are the best.
15w for 30 hours? These things are toys. My system consisting of a apc smart ups1500 connected to 4 (100ah/20hr each) agm batteries runs my entire tank(about 750w) for 18 hours. I can add as many as i want. The ups charges/ conditions them. But a seperate charger will be faster.They have been in use for about 5 years now and performed flawlessly this last season. I normally plug my TV and a lamp into it with the tanks until the storm passes. The unit itself looks nice and the batteries have a 20' cord. Currently setting up a cabinet in the garage for them. You can connect a computer to it and set up which outlets turn off when on battery(if any).

When one starts talking about these batteries they should also mention the price per unit. Of quality kits. Only raise this as, well, fellow hobbyist complain about the price of a captive bred yellow tang... 450 to 800 per agm unit may induce shock to some. Again I'm talking about quality batteries vs knock offs.

As you noted saltwater, water, environmental, and fires need to be properly considered here.

 

[Reefering1]

When one starts talking about these batteries they should also mention the price per unit. Of quality kits. Only raise this as, well, fellow hobbyist complain about the price of a captive bred yellow tang... 450 to 800 per agm unit may induce shock to some. Again I'm talking about quality batteries vs knock offs.

As you noted saltwater, water, environmental, and fires need to be properly considered here.

The agm batteries I suggest go for about 200 a piece. Look into "49 series agm battery". Same batteries in most Mercedes and BMW of the last 10-15 years. And a used apc ups can be found for 100$ with bad batteries. Still 900$, compared to 600 but 25x runtime.
Agm batteries will stop working under water, but will not catch fire because of it

 

[VintageReefer]

The agm batteries I suggest go for about 200 a piece. Look into "49 series agm battery". Same batteries in most Mercedes and BMW of the last 10-15 years. And a used apc ups can be found for 100$ with bad batteries. Still 900$, compared to 600 but 25x runtime.
Agm batteries will stop working under water, but will not catch fire because of it

And 1/4 the lifespan. Maybe 1/2 at best.
They will be useless in 5 years whether you use them or not and need to be replaced. If you run them down to zero their lifespan is impacted as well. Yea they will still start a car and run the car due to an alternator constantly charging them. But their run time / capacity is significantly impacted and that affects our backup purposes.

Just things to consider. I honestly do think you have a really good (and impressive) setup. Do the same thing with lifepo4 and a bms controller charger . I found 150ah lifepo4 for 150 each. Will last 10 years before it even starts to lose capacity

 

[Reefering1]

And 1/4 the lifespan. Maybe 1/2 at best.
They will be useless in 5 years whether you use them or not and need to be replaced. If you run them down to zero their lifespan is impacted as well. Yea they will still start a car and run the car due to an alternator constantly charging them. But their run time / capacity is significantly impacted and that affects our backup purposes.

Just things to consider. I honestly do think you have a really good (and impressive) setup. Do the same thing with lifepo4 and a bms controller charger . I found 150ah lifepo4 for 150 each. Will last 10 years before it even starts to lose capacity

I don't know about the "will be useless in 5 years" part, mine are on their 5th year in service and did just fine after milton this last season, and ian before that. How long do the batteries last in your cars? I'll go as high as "capacity could be reduced in 5 years".
And yes, repetitively draining down under 10v will degrade capacity. Those run times I posted are not running it down below 11, as the apc will shut down @11v. At that point I can choose to connect a automotive inverter and sacrifice the batteries if needed.

 

[Reefering1]

Do the same thing with lifepo4 and a bms controller charger

I'm scared of the lithium fires, that's my hold up. Otherwise, there's isn't much to not like. one day, I imagine putting together a bigger solar/inverter system. Ideally still using the agm banks. Or maybe build a shed, in the far corner of property, to house lithium based batteries. Idk.

 

[Tamberav]

I'm scared of the lithium fires, that's my hold up. Otherwise, there's isn't much to not like. one day, I imagine putting together a bigger solar/inverter system. Ideally still using the agm banks. Or maybe build a shed, in the far corner of property, to house lithium based batteries. Idk.

My understanding is the lifepo4 ones are much less of a fire risk the standard lithium.

I am going to go and pay out $$ for the lifepo4 for this reason alone even though I am giving up capacity.

I don’t live in a hurricane area so the house being flooded isn’t a concern. I am not sure about lifepo4 and floods but basically it seems it doesn’t just catch fire because it got hot or dropped, etc like a standard lithium and I need that piece of mind to sleep at night.

 

[VintageReefer]

My understanding is the lifepo4 ones are much less of a fire risk the standard lithium.

I am going to go and pay out $$ for the lifepo4 for this reason alone even though I am giving up capacity.

I don’t live in a hurricane area so the house being flooded isn’t a concern. I am not sure about lifepo4 and floods but basically it seems it doesn’t just catch fire because it got hot or dropped, etc like a standard lithium.

I’m desensitize to them. I’ve been running Lipo 3s and 6s in rc cars for at least 10 years.

Throw a Lipo battery in a aluminum chassis, accelerate to 60mph in 2.5 seconds, hit a curb and cartwheel a literal city block, watch bits and pieces of debris fly out into the sky, go collect the wreck, and the battery is fine and no explosion or fire. Eventually you start to trust them and they can handle some extreme abuse.


But yea I get what your saying and that’s lithium not lifepo4. Plus the controllers bms softare is hugely factoring for safety. Every individual cell is monitored individually for capacity, voltage, temp and health. if one cell starts to degrade faster than the others then the bms adjusts the charger to accommodate and correct that cells voltage as needed.

 

[Reefering1]

Correct, the concern is with water- not physical abuse(dropped or bumping it) and a decent one should shut down if it's overheating

 

[Tamberav]

I’m desensitize to them. I’ve been running Lipo 3s and 6s in rc cars for at least 10 years.

Throw a Lipo battery in a aluminum chassis, accelerate to 60mph in 2.5 seconds, hit a curb and cartwheel a literal city block, watch bits and pieces of debris fly out into the sky, go collect the wreck, and the battery is fine and no explosion or fire. Eventually you start to trust them and they can handle some extreme abuse.


But yea I get what your saying and that’s lithium not lifepo4. Plus the controllers bms softare is hugely factoring for safety. Every individual cell is monitored individually for capacity, voltage, temp and health. if one cell starts to degrade faster than the others then the bms adjusts the charger to accommodate and correct that cells voltage as needed.

Ha, well I trust an air plane enough to continue to take vacations but sometimes they do crash…

 

[VintageReefer]

Ha, well I trust an air plane enough to continue to take vacations but sometimes they do crash…

Acknowledged. But do you stop flying ?

 

[Tamberav]

Acknowledged. But do you stop flying ?

I’d pay extra not to be in the rickety boeing!

My last flight was sketchy