Battling Cyano. New Reefers Please Read!!

Picassoclown

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Hello everyone,

I have been reefing for 15 years, but took a decade long break when I went into the military. In the past I have always worked with live rock for my systems or clients systems when I was a young teenage kid and running a small fish business lol. This was the first tank I ever used dry, sterile rock. I wanted to share my success with the beginners in the hobby and give a complete breakdown of my ongoing battle with cyano that I am FINALLY getting under control.

Tank Specs & Specimens:

210 gallon system (150 gallon & 60 gallon sump)
Vectra M2 return pump
(2) MP40 power heads
Reef Octopus internal skimmer, rated for 300+ gallons
Approx 80lbs of dry Marco rock in display and in sump
(2) Neptune Sky LED lights

Livestock:

Juvenile orange shoulder tang
Pair of bullet hole clowns
Royal Gramma
Helfrichi
(10) masked gobies
(3) bimaculatus anthias
(3) neon blue gobies
(1) twin spot goby
(1) blood shrimp
(1) sand sifting starfish
(2) fighting conches
(1) crocea clam
(3) gorgonians
(40-50) snails: wide assortment of every kind from giant mexican turbo snails, to tiny nessariius snails & cerith snails
(1) blue knuckle crab
(1) halloween crab
(18-20) blue legged & red legged crabs

Corals:

(4) designer torches
(1) SPS stick
(1) bubble coral
(6) euphyllia ranging from hammers to octospawns and frogspawn
(1) trachy
(1) scoly
(2) blastos
(3) monti caps & 1 digitata
(1) duncan
(2) trumpets
(15) zoas
(4) mushrooms

My tank was setup in May of last year and finished cycling by end of June. Small bacteria blooms would come and go, as well as cyano itself, and other "ugly phase" algae. Things got really bad mid-December when I had cyano completely blow up. At first I let it be as it did come and go in the past, but after 3 weeks of it not going away and getting worse, I had to step things up.

I did a TON of research and reading and asking questions here. Before I proceed, I'd like to make a shoutout to the following people for helping me along the way @vetteguy53081 @Lavey29 @SunnyX @Randy Holmes-Farley

Although their knowledge was instrumental in assisting with this issue, not all of their suggestions worked. All tanks are different; what works for one person, might not work for another. I will share what worked for me and what did not. Please note** I am a naturalist. I do not ever use chemical bombs to treat an issue in the tank. If the ocean has natural ways to defeat an issue, so can we.

What DID NOT work for me:

-Turning off protein skimmer for 12 hours a day in hopes to increase nutrient levels.
-Vacuuming cyano off sand bed. The cyano was so thick, all I was doing was pulling out a ton of sand.
-Changing out filter socks as often as possible
-Microbacter 7
-3 day blackout periods
-Reducing the intensity of lights across all spectrums

What DID work for me:

-Dosing nitrates to consistently keep levels at 10ppm (corals also looked happier)
-Using SunnyX's technique shown here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/extreme-water-clarity-and-cyano-eradication-made-easy.916381/ I replaced the microbacter 7 with microbacter clean and dosed every other day. When dosing with MB clean, I followed the instructions exactly, along with Sunny's instructions, and let the mixture sit for 30 minutes to let the bacteria adhere to the calcium carbonate. I turned off protein skimmer and return pump for 4 hours, but kept the power heads on and dosed right into tank. After 15 minutes of letting the powerheads blow around the bacteria laced calcium carbonate, I turn them off for an hour to allow the mixture to settle on the rocks, glass, & sand bed. After the hour is up, I turn the powerhead on for an additional 3 hours. After this point, I now turn on the return pump and skimmer.
-Added a massive amount of amphipods and copepods to the system on 15 JAN
-Weekly water changes of 25%, increased from 10-15%
-Turn the protein skimmer on full blast
-Increase the MP40's speed by 15 during the nutrient transport cycle

The most noticeable change of the cyano starting to die off is:
-Dosing 4 tablespoons of phytoplankton every other day to increase the population of beneficial bacteria & increase pod populations (pods do not eat cyano, but are a fantastic CUC. They help to eradicate uneaten foods, that will raise phosphates over time, aiding in cyano growth).

Lessons learned from this experience:

1) I am fortunate to be self-employed and have all the time in the world to monitor corals during this outbreak. However, even with this dedication I still lost a handful of zoa's, 1 acan, 1 black widow anemone, and a LOT of snails. Within the first year of a sterile tank setup, I will add corals very slowly.

2) I will never do another blackout, I have no doubt the combination of cyano smothering my corals and reducing their food source has contributed to their demise.

3) I will never use MB7 again to help fight cyano. MB Clean is the clear winner by a mile.

4) I will never setup a dry, sterile system ever again without putting in live rock in the sump (from a sustainable source, obviously). The lack of bacteria in the system is asking for trouble down the line.

I really hope this helps everyone out and good luck in your cyano battles!

Tank in December: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cyano-calcium-carbonate.958991/#post-10945590

Tank now:

20230201_103639.jpg 20230201_103645.jpg 20230201_103651.jpg 20230201_103659.jpg
 
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Lavey29

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Hello everyone,

I have been reefing for 15 years, but took a decade long break when I went into the military. In the past I have always worked with live rock for my systems or clients systems when I was a young teenage kid and running a small fish business lol. This was the first tank I ever used dry, sterile rock. I wanted to share my success with the beginners in the hobby and give a complete breakdown of my ongoing battle with cyano that I am FINALLY getting under control.

Tank Specs & Specimens:

210 gallon system (150 gallon & 60 gallon sump)
Vectra M2 return pump
(2) MP40 power heads
Reef Octopus internal skimmer, rated for 300+ gallons
Approx 80lbs of dry Marco rock in display and in sump
(2) Neptune Sky LED lights

Livestock:

Juvenile orange shoulder tang
Pair of bullet hole clowns
Royal Gramma
Helfrichi
(10) masked gobies
(3) bimaculatus anthias
(3) neon blue gobies
(1) twin spot goby
(1) blood shrimp
(1) sand sifting starfish
(2) fighting conches
(1) crocea clam
(3) gorgonians
(40-50) snails: wide assortment of every kind from giant mexican turbo snails, to tiny nessariius snails & cerith snails
(1) blue knuckle crab
(1) halloween crab
(18-20) blue legged & red legged crabs

Corals:

(4) designer torches
(1) SPS stick
(1) bubble coral
(6) euphyllia ranging from hammers to octospawns and frogspawn
(1) trachy
(1) scoly
(2) blastos
(3) monti caps & 1 digitata
(1) duncan
(2) trumpets
(15) zoas
(4) mushrooms

My tank was setup in May of last year and finished cycling by end of June. Small bacteria blooms would come and go, as well as cyano itself, and other "ugly phase" algae. Things got really bad mid-December when I had cyano completely blow up. At first I let it be as it did come and go in the past, but after 3 weeks of it not going away and getting worse, I had to step things up.

I did a TON of research and reading and asking questions here. Before I proceed, I'd like to make a shoutout to the following people for helping me along the way @vetteguy53081 @Lavey29 @SunnyX @Randy Holmes-Farley

Although their knowledge was instrumental in assisting with this issue, not all of their suggestions worked. All tanks are different; what works for one person, might not work for another. I will share what worked for me and what did not. Please note** I am a naturalist. I do not ever use chemical bombs to treat an issue in the tank. If the ocean has natural ways to defeat an issue, so can we.

What DID NOT work for me:

-Turning off protein skimmer for 12 hours a day in hopes to increase nutrient levels.
-Vacuuming cyano off sand bed. The cyano was so thick, all I was doing was pulling out a ton of sand.
-Changing out filter socks as often as possible
-Microbacter 7
-3 day blackout periods
-Reducing the intensity of lights across all spectrums

What DID work for me:

-Dosing nitrates to consistently keep levels at 10ppm (corals also looked happier)
-Using SunnyX's technique shown here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/extreme-water-clarity-and-cyano-eradication-made-easy.916381/ I replaced the microbacter 7 with microbacter clean and dosed every other day. When dosing with MB clean, I followed the instructions exactly, along with Sunny's instructions, and let the mixture sit for 30 minutes to let the bacteria adhere to the calcium carbonate. I turned off protein skimmer and return pump for 4 hours, but kept the power heads on and dosed right into tank. After 15 minutes of letting the powerheads blow around the bacteria laced calcium carbonate, I turn them off for an hour to allow the mixture to settle on the rocks, glass, & sand bed. After the hour is up, I turn the powerhead on for an additional 3 hours. After this point, I now turn on the return pump and skimmer.
-Added a massive amount of amphipods and copepods to the system on 15 JAN
-Weekly water changes of 25%, increased from 10-15%
-Turn the protein skimmer on full blast
-Increase the MP40's speed by 15 during the nutrient transport cycle

The most noticeable change of the cyano starting to die off is:
-Dosing 4 tablespoons of phytoplankton every other day to increase the population of beneficial bacteria & increase pod populations (pods do not eat cyano, but are a fantastic CUC. They help to eradicate uneaten foods, that will raise phosphates over time, aiding in cyano growth).

Lessons learned from this experience:

1) I am fortunate to be self-employed and have all the time in the world to monitor corals during this outbreak. However, even with this dedication I still lost a handful of zoa's, 1 acan, 1 black widow anemone, and a LOT of snails. Within the first year of a sterile tank setup, I will add corals very slowly.

2) I will never do another blackout, I have no doubt the combination of cyano smothering my corals and reducing their food source has contributed to their demise.

3) I will never use MB7 again to help fight cyano. MB Clean is the clear winner by a mile.

4) I will never setup a dry, sterile system ever again without putting in live rock in the sump (from a sustainable source, obviously). The lack of bacteria in the system is asking for trouble down the line.

I really hope this helps everyone out and good luck in your cyano battles!

Tank in December: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cyano-calcium-carbonate.958991/#post-10945590

Tank now:

20230201_103639.jpg 20230201_103645.jpg 20230201_103651.jpg 20230201_103659.jpg
Excellent comprehensive review
 

Risk1994

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Thanks for this. I have 1.5yr old mixed reef. Been going really well but last several months have been really struggling with Cyano...I CANNOT get it under control. Im at the point of having to blow it off the rocks/backwall and siphon out every 3-4 days...Its completely destroying my interest in this hobby.

I've done much of what you did....

-Turning off protein skimmer for 12 hours a day in hopes to increase nutrient levels.
Never tried this one, not sure the benefit here.

-Vacuuming cyano off sand bed. The cyano was so thick, all I was doing was pulling out a ton of sand.
I do this like twice a week now...its a HUGE PIA.

-Changing out filter socks as often as possible
I use a rollermat

-Microbacter 7
I have tried this with no luck

-3 day blackout periods
Done this many, many times. It allows me to only have to vacuum/blow off the rocks once a week for a time...then back to normal.

-Reducing the intensity of lights across all spectrums
I've reduced my photoperiod rather than my intensity.

I've haven't done cyano clean recently because I've used it in the past and know what it does....remove cyano for a week or so, then back to business as usual.

I also tried Dr. Tims waste away/refresh regimen (after vacuuming out sandbed/blowing off rocks and 3 day blackout!) no change.

Every 3-4 days Its all over my sand/back wall and rocks.

I do AWC of around 1g per day on my 75g red sea reefer. I have a UV sterilizer set on low flow for ich/velvet on 24/7. I've turned if off for a couple months thinking this might be the issue.

I dose nitrate/phosphate as my levels drop to zero if I don't. I did notice recently my phosphates zeroed out for a couple of weeks during my waste away treatment...so not sure if that ruined the treatment...that's an anomaly though....I'm usually anal about keeping those levels above zero.

I stumbled across those coral snow treatments you linked to and am excited to try them. Im confused about something you wrote though....

The most noticeable change of the cyano starting to die off is:
-Dosing 4 tablespoons of phytoplankton every other day to increase the population of beneficial bacteria & increase pod populations (pods do not eat cyano, but are a fantastic CUC. They help to eradicate uneaten foods, that will raise phosphates over time, aiding in cyano growth).
I didnt see mention of this in those threads, can you point me to the phyto you used (alive/dead?) Can you also describe when you did this? Also when you dosed pods and which ones...

Just looking for as much specific detail as you can give...Im desperate at this point.
 
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Picassoclown

Picassoclown

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Thanks for this. I have 1.5yr old mixed reef. Been going really well but last several months have been really struggling with Cyano...I CANNOT get it under control. Im at the point of having to blow it off the rocks/backwall and siphon out every 3-4 days...Its completely destroying my interest in this hobby.

I've done much of what you did....


Never tried this one, not sure the benefit here.


I do this like twice a week now...its a HUGE PIA.


I use a rollermat


I have tried this with no luck


Done this many, many times. It allows me to only have to vacuum/blow off the rocks once a week for a time...then back to normal.


I've reduced my photoperiod rather than my intensity.

I've haven't done cyano clean recently because I've used it in the past and know what it does....remove cyano for a week or so, then back to business as usual.

I also tried Dr. Tims waste away/refresh regimen (after vacuuming out sandbed/blowing off rocks and 3 day blackout!) no change.

Every 3-4 days Its all over my sand/back wall and rocks.

I do AWC of around 1g per day on my 75g red sea reefer. I have a UV sterilizer set on low flow for ich/velvet on 24/7. I've turned if off for a couple months thinking this might be the issue.

I dose nitrate/phosphate as my levels drop to zero if I don't. I did notice recently my phosphates zeroed out for a couple of weeks during my waste away treatment...so not sure if that ruined the treatment...that's an anomaly though....I'm usually anal about keeping those levels above zero.

I stumbled across those coral snow treatments you linked to and am excited to try them. Im confused about something you wrote though....


I didnt see mention of this in those threads, can you point me to the phyto you used (alive/dead?) Can you also describe when you did this? Also when you dosed pods and which ones...

Just looking for as much specific detail as you can give...Im desperate at this point.
Hi Risk! First off, don't be discouraged. All good things in reefing take time to build. Stick with it and everything will be just fine! So right now I am battling a really bad outbreak of dinoflagellates....I bet what you have is the exact same thing and this reef snow method will not work. What is working of me right now is the following:

-Removing any Dino build up on glass and rocks 2 times a day
-Removing filter socks every morning
-Adding a UV sterilizer (nothing expensive, I am using a cheap submersible one from amazon)
-Adding in a big piece of poly filter; I had an ICP test done and it showed high levels of aluminum, which were being leaked from a marine pure biobrick. The poly filter will suck out any heavy metals and even turn a certain color to let you know what the metal is. In my case red is for aluminum. In addition, aluminum will aid in nuisance algae growth, especially Dinos & diatoms
-Dosing 3 different Bacterias daily (microbacter 7, microbacter clean, dr. Tims wasteaway) into the display tank with return pump and skimmer shut off. Power heads are left on to move the bacteria all over the rock, sand, and glass

3 most important things that seem to be working the best are (and to answer your question directly) is adding Magik Ocean phytoplankton from algae barn & the most important is raising temperature to a target of 82 degrees. I have a 215 gallon with some highly valued designer pieces and fish so I am raising by a 1/2 degree every 4 days. A lot of research out there shows that Dinos cannot survive warmer temperatures. Lastly, use a turkey baster and move your sand around 2 times a day to get those Dinos in the water column to be skimmed out and neutralized by the UV sterilizer.

Follow this guide and I promise you, you will be fine and it will all go away. Also, please send some pics of your issue so I can help identify your issue (if it actually is not Dino's)
 

Lavey29

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Hi Risk! First off, don't be discouraged. All good things in reefing take time to build. Stick with it and everything will be just fine! So right now I am battling a really bad outbreak of dinoflagellates....I bet what you have is the exact same thing and this reef snow method will not work. What is working of me right now is the following:

-Removing any Dino build up on glass and rocks 2 times a day
-Removing filter socks every morning
-Adding a UV sterilizer (nothing expensive, I am using a cheap submersible one from amazon)
-Adding in a big piece of poly filter; I had an ICP test done and it showed high levels of aluminum, which were being leaked from a marine pure biobrick. The poly filter will suck out any heavy metals and even turn a certain color to let you know what the metal is. In my case red is for aluminum. In addition, aluminum will aid in nuisance algae growth, especially Dinos & diatoms
-Dosing 3 different Bacterias daily (microbacter 7, microbacter clean, dr. Tims wasteaway) into the display tank with return pump and skimmer shut off. Power heads are left on to move the bacteria all over the rock, sand, and glass

3 most important things that seem to be working the best are (and to answer your question directly) is adding Magik Ocean phytoplankton from algae barn & the most important is raising temperature to a target of 82 degrees. I have a 215 gallon with some highly valued designer pieces and fish so I am raising by a 1/2 degree every 4 days. A lot of research out there shows that Dinos cannot survive warmer temperatures. Lastly, use a turkey baster and move your sand around 2 times a day to get those Dinos in the water column to be skimmed out and neutralized by the UV sterilizer.

Follow this guide and I promise you, you will be fine and it will all go away. Also, please send some pics of your issue so I can help identify your issue (if it actually is not Dino's)
The only thing I would suggest to add to this is pods. I think pods are the unsung dino killers. Snails often won't touch it but pods that cover you sand will so if you are dosing phytoplankton add a jar or two of pods each month and watch your sand improve.
 
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Picassoclown

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The only thing I would suggest to add to this is pods. I think pods are the unsung dino killers. Snails often won't touch it but pods that cover you sand will so if you are dosing phytoplankton add a jar or two of pods each month and watch your sand improve.
Good call Lavey. Yes, absolutely a nice big batch of pods will help. But I would get an ICP test done first @Risk1994 . You want to make sure there's nothing in your water that will kill off the pods, or inhibit beneficial bacteria growth. In my case, it was aluminum.
 

Risk1994

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Some pics of what I'm dealing with...do you think its dino rather than cyano?

Here's the tank after I sucked out the cyano(?) from the gravel and right before I did the snow/MB7 treatment... Note the gravel in the center in particular.
20230220_205559.jpg

Here is the tank the next morning....
This is like 12hrs later all of it nighttime with lights off!

20230221_151110.jpg 20230221_151022.jpg

Heres a shot lit from below, you can really see the bubbles, I know cyano does this also. None of this really gets stringy though, more of a mat.
20230221_221132.jpg
 

Lavey29

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I'm going to guess some form of cyano. Dinos typically disappear overnight then start back again at first light. You think yours was active overnight which differs from dinos. Try increasing flow on your sand to start with.
 
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Picassoclown

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Some pics of what I'm dealing with...do you think its dino rather than cyano?

Here's the tank after I sucked out the cyano(?) from the gravel and right before I did the snow/MB7 treatment... Note the gravel in the center in particular.
20230220_205559.jpg

Here is the tank the next morning....
This is like 12hrs later all of it nighttime with lights off!

20230221_151110.jpg 20230221_151022.jpg

Heres a shot lit from below, you can really see the bubbles, I know cyano does this also. None of this really gets stringy though, more of a mat.
20230221_221132.jpg
Hi Risk. Looks like you might have a mix of cyano and Dinos. Does some of it disappear at night? Let's start with the basics to help tackle the problem.

1) Increase flow along the sand bed, or start doing a different wave mode if your powerheads allow it
2 Start adding in beneficial bacteria and phytoplankton. I add both of these items after I have turkey basted the rocks and have moved around the sand a bit
3) Did you get an ICP test done? This is very, very important. I bet you probably have some form of unwanted dissolved metal in your tank and maybe low magnesium. Low magnesium levels will assist nuisance algae growth
4) Purchase a cheap little UV sterilizer. This is the one I bought. It's rated for 120 gallons. I have a 215 gallon system and this is definitely helping. I would buy 2, but I am almost maxed out on amperage for the room my tank is in:

Amazon product

Also, stop removing sand. All you are doing is removing helpful bacteria and will make the problem worse

Can you let us know what your magnesium, alkalinity, & PH readings are please?
 

Risk1994

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1) Increase flow along the sand bed, or start doing a different wave mode if your powerheads allow it
Yes Ill have to figure out a way to do this.
2) Start adding in beneficial bacteria and phytoplankton. I add both of these items after I have turkey basted the rocks and have moved around the sand a bit
I just completed a 2 week course of Dr. Tim waste away/refresh. I've done 2 of the snow+MB7 treatments so far. I would like to try pods but unsure which to get. I imagine Ill need to do a pod+phyto regimen? Is there any detail on the best way to do this?

3) Did you get an ICP test done? This is very, very important. I bet you probably have some form of unwanted dissolved metal in your tank and maybe low magnesium. Low magnesium levels will assist nuisance algae growth
No. I havent for a long time. Ill order another one.

4) Purchase a cheap little UV sterilizer.
I already have a 25w pentair UV. I turned it off a month or so ago, I thought perhaps it was killing beneficial bacteria leading to this problem. I would say most of the time I've had this isse the UV has been on, The last 3-4 weeks its been off. It's set to a really low flow (50gph) to fight ich/velvet. I think for cyano/dino it would need to be much much higher.



Day 1...(after thorough clean)
20230220_205559.jpg

day 3... (cant tell but its all over rock/back wall)
20230223_135107.jpg 20230223_134759.jpg 20230223_134750.jpg
 
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Picassoclown

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Hey Risk!

So let's tackle your responses:

-Nicely done on the ICP test. It is the only way to see what's really going on here.
-Were you able to find out about the powerheads? I ordered 2 of these little powerheads from amazon and put them all around my sump. I believe a lot of my issues were being caused there from an extensive build up of food and poop. I could see lumps of dinos/cyano build up all over the rock debris and my chaeto/dragon's breath. You can buy 2 of these and put them slightly along your sand bed to assist in flow or in areas where you see flow is quite stagnant.

Amazon product

-You are correct, adding phyto with the pods would definitely help. You can get any batch you like from any retailer you are familiar with. I would go with the most diverse batch you can find. The problem in both our tank is a lack of bacteria diversity, so we need to provide as much of that as possible. The best way I would dose is by turning off all the pumps and adding pods at night, so fish don't eat them all lol. Phyto can be added along with your feedings.
-The UV sterilizer will only kill off what's free in the water column. The majority of bacteria is on the sand bed, glass, & rock. It sounds like your bulb might be old. Get that replaced and adjust the GPH exactly as they recommend to combat algae.

Did you start increasing the temperature yet? Target is 82 degrees. I have yet to see one post that was not successful beating an outbreak using this method. I am very surprised this is not being discussed more in detail. I actually stumbled across this technique by accident. I am 2.5 degrees away from reaching 82. When I get there, I will share my progress with you.

What is your alkalinity and magnesium currently at? The ICP test will tell you exactly how much you need to raise it by. My target is 1500.
 

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