Best return pump

[TaylorPilot]

What I don't get is in their literature they say that the 6250 comes with a 1/3 HP motor. 1/3 HP is only 254 watts. This pump draws double that. Something is off....

 

[foxt]

Head pressure is a little confusing. What it really means is that the back pressure on the outlet of the pump is equivalent to a certain number of feet of water column pressure. So 33 vertical feet of salt water exerts 1 atmosphere of pressure (14.7 PSI). So if you divide that out, each foot of head pressure is actually 0.445 PSI. So when you look at a chart all it is really showing is performance and power draws at a certain amount of back pressure on the outlet of the pump. Whether it is created from actual water column height, or from a ball valve being restricted down, the pump doesn't know the difference. So if you know what GPH you want, you just look at where that number crosses and read out the wattage draw. So with this pump, it is creating 2000 GPH at about 8.686 PSI, also known as 19.5' of head pressure, while drawing about 450 watts or 3.75 amps @ 120V.

Excellent information, thank you!

Dolphin at 450W or Barracuda at 237W. That's going to be more like a $240 difference in annual operating cost at my utility rate. I have found a used Barracuda locally for $200, and I think I will give it a try and see what my actual flow/power performance will be ....

 

[TaylorPilot]

Excellent information, thank you!

Dolphin at 450W or Barracuda at 237W. That's going to be more like a $240 difference in annual operating cost at my utility rate. I have found a used Barracuda locally for $200, and I think I will give it a try and see what my actual flow/power performance will be ....

Yea, but like I was saying. Something doesn't jive. They say they are using a 1/3 HP motor, but that it draws 500 watts. Then we have a forum member saying that his draws 2 amps, which would be more inline with what a pump running a 1/3 HP motor would be doing. Some information somewhere is wrong.

 

[foxt]

Yea, but like I was saying. Something doesn't jive. They say they are using a 1/3 HP motor, but that it draws 500 watts. Then we have a forum member saying that his draws 2 amps, which would be more inline with what a pump running a 1/3 HP motor would be doing. Some information somewhere is wrong.

They both run 1/3HP motors. Without knowing the specific power factor or efficiency of any of these motors, it is a bit of a guessing game about power consumption, etc, but you would expect the performance of either pump to be somewhat similar - not off by 2x. That was why I reached out to Dolphin. What I got back was essentially an attitude. In contrast, Reeflo has been very responsive and on-point (they confirmed 250W for the Barracuda at my target head/flow). I politely responded back to Dolphin asking for clarification and am hoping that I get a better response ...

 

[foxt]

I did just get a more detailed and professional response from Dolphin, so maybe the guy was just having a bad day. That said, he's sticking with what the published pump curve for the 6250 says. He's also sorta suggesting that Reeflo's published numbers can't be right (he didn't say that directly, but he did say that if I get 2400gph at 15' of head for 250W then my "flow meter must be crap" or my head loss calculation is wrong).

Anyway, I have a Barracuda on the way. I need a backup pump, and if I can find a used 6250 I'll pick that up and then I can directly compare them myself ...

 

[Cabinetman]

get a dc jebao. You won't be disappointed.

 

[jasonrusso]

My Eheim 1262s are rated at 80w, but they actually draw 100w. I have one on a PC UPS so it gives me the power consumption.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I have a 300 gallon system. used a Jebao DCT 12000 and a DCS 12000 both froze up after about 8 months and after cleaning worked for about 2 more months. Used my Mag 18 each time to clean the Jebao and finally said heck with it and just left the mag 18 on they run for ever.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

get a dc jebao. You won't be disappointed.

Haha you have got to be kidding me!? Don't waste your money on crap. Jebao make nothing but cheap crap that rarely lasts a year.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html

This. It takes one of the 240V 3 Phase motors and converts it to run on a standard wall plug. It has a 0-10v input so you can hook it up to a controller. They make that exact same control in Nema rated enclosures. AKA rain and dust proof

This is true variable frequency controlled 3 phase motors are efficient but I don't see the need for adjustable return pumps. Alternating 2 closed loop on a controller would be cool though.

 

[TaylorPilot]

@Bruce Burnett I don't either. My original line of research was for multiple closed loops running on a controller. 2-3 of the large dolphin pumps with baldor 3 phase motors on these hooked to a controller on a large 400+ gallon tank would be just awesome.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Haha you have got to be kidding me!? Don't waste your money on crap. Jebao make nothing but cheap crap that rarely lasts a year.

i have 4 wave pumps that have been going two years, problems with power supplies but that was because i was stacking them and they were over heating.

 

[Brew12]

I'm not experienced with aquariums but I deal with pumps, motors and flows at work on a regular basis.

When talking about centrifugal pumps (which these all are) there are some things that hold true. The one people struggle with is power consumption. It takes a specific amount of power to move water through a system. In an ideal world Horse Power (HP) = Flow (gpm) x Pressure (psi). This is true if the motor is AC, DC, or hand driven. We don't live in an ideal world and our motors and pumps have loses. In this case HP = gpm x psi / efficiency.

If you have a ball valve and throttle it closed then the flow goes down and pressure goes up. Because flow decreases much more than pressure increases the total power used drops. As questioned in a previous post, it is easily possible to reduce the power used by a motor by 50% if you substantially reduce flow. In fact, if you valve a centrifugal pump completely off it uses almost no power. (zero gpm x any flow = zero).

Having said that, the main difference in power usage between models is efficiency. Magnetic pumps tend to be very inefficient. There is a large air gap between the armature (fixed part) and permanent magnet that is in the rotor (moving part). DC pumps and direct coupled AC pumps will use much less power than mag pumps and should be fairly comparable with each other. Impeller design can also have an impact on efficiency.

I hope I didn't bore you but my inner geek needed to come out once I started reading this thread.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Aren't all of the DC pumps out now magnetic impeller pumps like the tried but true mag pumps.

 

[zajola]

i favor Vectra M1...silent is golden

 

[TaylorPilot]

First Post! Welcome to Reef2Reef!!!!!

 

[Brew12]

Aren't all of the DC pumps out now magnetic impeller pumps like the tried but true mag pumps.

Like I said, I'm not an aquarium guy (yet anyway). But, to answer your question, they probably are brushless DC motors. Which, in reality, are AC synchronous motors. The DC is converted into non sinusoidal AC using a built in inverter. You gain a little efficiency by not using a sine wave but lose efficiency by needing the solid state inverter.

I'm curious now so I'll research the models you guys are discussing and I'll let you know if I find anything interesting.

 

[Brew12]

Thought that would take longer. Ecotech has some excellent information on their website.

Basically, if you run an AC or DC mag pump at full speed with no throttle valves, the AC pump should be slightly more efficient.

The DC pump gains efficiency as you purposely reduce flow.
As I said in my first post, if you throttle closed a valve to reduce flow the gpm goes down but the pressure goes up. gpm has a larger impact on power usage so since HP=gpm x psi/efficiency your total HP used goes down. This would be your standard option for an AC pump.
On a DC pump you can use the built in electronics to reduce pump speed. This reduces both rpm and psi which both reduce needed HP.
So, the further from maximum design flow you operate your return pump the larger the efficiency gains of a DC pump would be.

 

[fredro]

I have the Jebao DC-6000, the EcoTech Vectra M1 and the Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 50w. I replaced the Jebao with the EcoTech M1, not because I had an issue, but because the Jebao pumps have had failure issues in the past with the Power Supplies and the Controllers (NOT USUALLY THE PUMP ITSELF). I purchased an extra Jebao power supply and controller right off the bat, when I bought the pump, as a precaution. With that said, I LOVED the Jebao DC pump and mainly replaced it because I love EcoTech and wanted the pump to match the rest of my equipment. I set up the M1, with the Jebao as a backup. The EcoTech Vectra is a silent, reliable and all-around GREAT pump. I'm hoping that when EcoTech eventually comes out with a full, official controller platform, that having the Vectra will pay off even further. A few months after I set up the Vectra, I came across a great deal on a brand new Royal Exclusiv RD3 50w, which I have always wanted and matches with the entire color scheme of my sump, with the rest of my Vertex products. I set the pump up in the bathtub to test it out and I was blown away by its power and how quiet it was, amazingly even more so than the Vectra (but not THAT much). I was going to install it, but I'm looking to tear down and redo my entire tank and think I'll wait till then to do it, if I do. I must say, I'm still hard pressed to take out the EcoTech, seeing how the future potential of the pump will likely be expanded in the near future and even the little things, like the fourth port on the Vectra controller, that will act as an input for things like float switches and whatnot, all allowing for further control through EcoSmart Live.

Final thoughts are that it all comes down to budget for the most part in my opinion. The Jebao is a great product for the money, just as the Vectra is also a great deal, considering the features you get, at a price point much lower that most pumps in its class. As far as the rest of the Jebao models go, DC/DCS/DCT... I can't speak for the specific differences, but the products as a whole are pretty solid. I would definitely recommend going higher and clocking if back as it's needed. Also, if you go with the Jebao pump, I would recommend getting a few spare electronic components, if you don't have a backup pump, as you are better safe than sorry. And compared to the EcoTech pump, a spare power supply and controller are cheap enough that you can't afford to not keep a spare on hand (because rest assured, your pull WILL die at 7pm on a Sunday, it's just how it goes).

 

[Waxhaw reefer]

My dct6000 froze after 4?months, went back to my trusty eheim!!