Best return pump

[SteadyC]

that had to do more with a poor choice of pump.

to test this idea:
i found an amp master 3900. (i didnt know they had one) and found the specs.

at 1.4 amps x 110 volts is 154 watts. close to the vectras but still runs ac.

ill see how they compare via performance

so at 5.5ft head pressure we get 60 gpm or 3600 gph

vectra m1

ill just give in and say it is 1600 gph x 2 @ 5ft which is 3200 gph.

a tip of the hat goes to the max head height of 20ft vs a dolphin one (13 ft). unless you are running it from your basement, i doubt itll matter.

impressive pump. ill say that. lets just hope they last or dont lose flow like their mp40s. i still think they have a bit of proving to do.

(edited to be more constructive)

also how quiet are the vectras? decibel level means a lot to us in the hobby. im assuming pretty quiet.

Great info, and I was happy to learn of the Dolphin pumps, if the Vectra's don't work out. My sump is in the basement, current head height is 16 feet for me, and another reason why I'm running two. Yeah, the Iwaki seems like a power hog even as compared to other AC pumps.

I have lost a power adapter, so I am keeping my eye on how these do over time. I had both power adapters stacked on top of each other and they might have overheated. Something most people with one Vectra wouldn't see, unless they also put their power adapter next to something warm.

 

[Russ265]

Great info, and I was happy to learn of the Dolphin pumps, if the Vectra's don't work out. My sump is in the basement, current head height is 16 feet for me, and another reason why I'm running two. Yeah, the Iwaki seems like a power hog even as compared to other AC pumps.

I have lost a power adapter, so I am keeping my eye on how these do over time. I had both power adapters stacked on top of each other and they might have overheated. Something most people with one Vectra wouldn't see, unless they also put their power adapter next to something warm.

what turned me off about the iwakis were their decibels. 80-100+ db isnt going under my stand.

for reference my 6250 measured at 57 db. about the sound of a refrigerator hum. i can hear my gyre 150 over it.



skip to minute 4. these are just 1200 gph pumps too.

 

[SteadyC]

that had to do more with a poor choice of pump.

to test this idea:
i found an amp master 3900. (i didnt know they had one) and found the specs.

at 1.4 amps x 110 volts is 154 watts. close to the vectras but still runs ac.

ill see how they compare via performance

so at 5.5ft head pressure we get 60 gpm or 3600 gph

vectra m1

ill just give in and say it is 1600 gph x 2 @ 5ft which is 3200 gph.

a tip of the hat goes to the max head height of 20ft vs a dolphin one (13 ft). unless you are running it from your basement, i doubt itll matter.

impressive pump. ill say that. lets just hope they last or dont lose flow like their mp40s. i still think they have a bit of proving to do.

(edited to be more constructive)

also how quiet are the vectras? decibel level means a lot to us in the hobby. im assuming pretty quiet.

They are very, very quiet. For the longest time, when I went into my sump room, I thought the pumps were off, after moving off the Iwaki. I have a fan in the room, and I can't hear the Vectra's, 2 of them, over the fan. I just watched a Youtube video, a guy measured the dB, 22.9dB for the L1 which is the larger model.

 

[Russ265]

They are very, very quiet. For the longest time, when I went into my sump room, I thought the pumps were off, after moving off the Iwaki. I have a fan in the room, and I can't hear the Vectra's, 2 of them, over the fan. I just watched a Youtube video, a guy measured the dB, 22.9dB for the L1 which is the larger model.

whisper quiet then. like the mag drives.

 

[TaylorPilot]

DC doesn't save power? Sure does. Here is my comparison. I ran an Iwaki MD-70, 1536 GPH, 336 watts. I'm now running 2 Vectra M1's, 2000 GPH each, 80 watts each. Seems I get more GPH for a LOT less watts. I am saving power over the AC Iwaki I was running.

It's kind of comparing apples and hand grenades. You are comparing a pressure rated pump to a high volume low pressure pump. Install both with about 6-8 ft of head, the 12-14 ft of head and see if the numbers don't get closer in spec. Even if the Vectra pumps do produce better numbers it will be because of a better designed volute and impeller. When comparing two identical spec and quality motors running off AC wall power, the AC motor should be more efficient. Think about it. You are having to use electronics to convert the line voltage down to the needed voltage for the pump. This usually creates so much heat, they have to install heat sinks of the units to get the heat out of it. DC motors are good for situations where the line voltage is already in DC form. Like cars, boats and planes. That being said, you can adjust the pulse and timing on controlled motors to help make them quieter, and since all of them are water cooled, they don't need fans to cool the motor blocks. External pumps use to win out in that category when people would run big MH bulbs over their tanks. Now with most people running LED, it doesn't matter. You have to run heaters all the time anyways. Who cares if the pump puts a little more heat back in the water.

 

[SteadyC]

It's kind of comparing apples and hand grenades. You are comparing a pressure rated pump to a high volume low pressure pump. Install both with about 6-8 ft of head, the 12-14 ft of head and see if the numbers don't get closer in spec. Even if the Vectra pumps do produce better numbers it will be because of a better designed volute and impeller. When comparing two identical spec and quality motors running off AC wall power, the AC motor should be more efficient. Think about it. You are having to use electronics to convert the line voltage down to the needed voltage for the pump. This usually creates so much heat, they have to install heat sinks of the units to get the heat out of it. DC motors are good for situations where the line voltage is already in DC form. Like cars, boats and planes. That being said, you can adjust the pulse and timing on controlled motors to help make them quieter, and since all of them are water cooled, they don't need fans to cool the motor blocks. External pumps use to win out in that category when people would run big MH bulbs over their tanks. Now with most people running LED, it doesn't matter. You have to run heaters all the time anyways. Who cares if the pump puts a little more heat back in the water.

I am measuring AMPs output from before with the Iwaki and after with the Vectra's. I was pulling 6 amps before and now 4 amps with the Vectra's. Definitely using less power. And I am pushing more water.

 

[Russ265]

I am measuring AMPs output from before with the Iwaki and after with the Vectra's. I was pulling 6 amps before and now 4 amps with the Vectra's. Definitely using less power. And I am pushing more water.

lol. my 6,250 gph pump pulls less than 2 amps.

you dont have to take my word for it. check the reviews on amazon and marine depot.

BRS still doesnt acknowledge these pumps. i really dont see a better pump than a dolphin when i look at the numbers unless you really need a pressure pump.

i know i sound like a dolphin salesman... but the numbers are there. quiet, reliable, energy xfer, etc.

no one states "gosh. after 5 years i have to replace my dolphin". no. its "well my pump seemed dated and was going good for 15 years and figured i needed a new one. this one is in my closet for now"

these testimonials are ridiculously awesome for the life blood of your tank. (the return)

not even a competition

 

[SteadyC]

lol. my 6,250 gph pump pulls less than 2 amps.

you dont have to take my word for it. check the reviews on amazon and marine depot.

BRS still doesnt acknowledge these pumps. i really dont see a better pump than a dolphin when i look at the numbers unless you really need a pressure pump.

i know i sound like a dolphin salesman... but the numbers are there. quiet, reliable, energy xfer, etc.

no one states "gosh. after 5 years i have to replace my dolphin". no. its "well my pump seemed dated and was going good for 15 years and figured i needed a new one. this one is in my closet for now"

these testimonials are ridiculously awesome for the life blood of your tank. (the return)

not even a competition

That's with heater and protein skimmer on. Using the amp measure on the apex. If I turn off the heater and protein skimmer, I also run at 2 amps, that was my real,world exact comparison. 6 amps with Iwaki and everything else, then switch to 2 Vectra's and everything else on.

 

[Russ265]

That's with heater and protein skimmer on. Using the amp measure on the apex. If I turn off the heater and protein skimmer, I also run at 2 amps, that was my real,world exact comparison. 6 amps with Iwaki and everything else, then switch to 2 Vectra's and everything else on.

hey thats fine. just dont sell an unproven product to me.

plenty of people running other pumps for decades without a hitch.
ecotech came out last year. impressive results, but unproven as a standard.

btw iwaki is cheaper than dolphin. i have no idea why people measure up to it when dolphin was serving it up every step of the way. - maybe it was just too quiet?

 

[TaylorPilot]

hey thats fine. just dont sell an unproven product to me.

plenty of people running other pumps for decades without a hitch.
ecotech came out last year. impressive results, but unproven as a standard.

btw iwaki is cheaper than dolphin. i have no idea why people measure up to it when dolphin was serving it up every step of the way. - maybe it was just too quiet?

I have always heard they were good pumps. My biggest issue with reeflo pumps are the constant seal maintenance. Are their shaft seals superior?

 

[Russ265]

I have always heard they were good pumps. My biggest issue with reeflo pumps are the constant seal maintenance. Are their shaft seals superior?

nope. reeflo is garbage. lfs down the street got rid of his pump. idc what anyone says. that thing is LOUD and prone to failure. i mean. it sounded like a 1920s kirby vacuum cleaner. it was ridiculously loud.

i dont even need power heads. no iwaki is pushing that kind of water.

my half horsepower chiller was going off in the background so you couldnt hear my pump's "hum" but ill say this.

im in the top1% pushing water. and im doing it with less wattage.

 

[TaylorPilot]

That 6250 looks like a beast of a closed loop pump. I wonder if they offer them with 3 phase motors. You could put it on a VFD and get all the benefits of a DC pump. Most of the off the shelf VFDs even have 0-10V hook ups so you could run them off of a controller easily.

 

[Russ265]

That 6250 looks like a beast of a closed loop pump. I wonder if they offer them with 3 phase motors. You could put it on a VFD and get all the benefits of a DC pump. Most of the off the shelf VFDs even have 0-10V hook ups so you could run them off of a controller easily.

like i said. get a "smart" outlet from ebay for 20 bucks and you can run it as slow or as fast as you want from a phone.

i only use valves because im not in the habit of changing my return's flow rate. it just "works".

 

[TaylorPilot]

You mean just lowering the voltage of the motor to slow it down? That can be an issue for the motor. Although it may not be an issue if the motors are capable of getting rid of allot of extra heat. Allot of the 100% duty cycle motors are over designed for removing heat so they can last longer. Plus they are designed to work outdoors and in hot environments.

 

[Russ265]

You mean just lowering the voltage of the motor to slow it down? That can be an issue for the motor. Although it may not be an issue if the motors are capable of getting rid of allot of extra heat. Allot of the 100% duty cycle motors are over designed for removing heat so they can last longer. Plus they are designed to work outdoors and in hot environments.

quite right. i think the accepted value is not less than 50%.
the valves actually lower the wattage on it's own. thats why i dont mess with it.

eg: give it more back pressure and the watts reduce. not sure how it works, but thats what i see.

 

[TaylorPilot]

They look like standard sized motors, so you should be able to mount any same sized motor to them. Baldor makes motors in that size that top out at 1750 RPM and can be used with a VFD. Two of those big ones run by an APEX to ramp up and down flow in separate closed loops would be amazing in a large tank. I wonder if they sale the wet side assemblies without a motor.

 

[Russ265]

pretty sure i frightened everyone with an ecotech snowflake vectra now.

btw... these pumps last DECADES

 

[Russ265]

They look like standard sized motors, so you should be able to mount any same sized motor to them. Baldor makes motors in that size that top out at 1750 RPM and can be used with a VFD. Two of those big ones run by an APEX to ramp up and down flow in separate closed loops would be amazing in a large tank. I wonder if they sale the wet side assemblies without a motor.

would be an interesting experiment and beyond my experience.

 

[TaylorPilot]

http://www.factorymation.com/Products/FM50_115V/FM50-101-C.html

This. It takes one of the 240V 3 Phase motors and converts it to run on a standard wall plug. It has a 0-10v input so you can hook it up to a controller. They make that exact same control in Nema rated enclosures. AKA rain and dust proof

 

[SteadyC]

pretty sure i frightened everyone with an ecotech snowflake vectra now.

btw... these pumps last DECADES

I'm not scared. . At one point all pumps, including Dolphin were new.