Best return pumps in the industry: Who gets your vote?

[HolisticBear]

Been using both Octo Varios 4/8 and also have a Speedy Red Dragon, all DC. One thing I have not seen mentioned much is the fact that a DC pump can be multi-purposed. You can dial them down for use on smaller systems or crank them up for larger ones. It's always nice to be able to swap a single pump on a 60 frag and 150 display!! If you have to....

I love my Varios 4. The Red Dragon is 2-3x the Varios, and I'm shopping for a return for my next build. Do you think the Red Dragon is worth it, aka would you make the same purchase again?

 

[TaylorPilot]

I am somewhat new to this so 0ut of curiosity why are you against using DC pumps?

They have added complexity, and most models have proven to be less reliable than standard AC pumps. It is pretty common for them to start having issues within 24 months. Several of us have had AC pumps that have been running for a decade or longer. The benefit of being able to ramp flow up or down randomly isn't really needed for a return pump. Just size it how you need it, and if you need to reduce the flow a little, use a ball valve. It would be nice for a closed loop, but I don't really see many people using them for that. They all have crazy high flow numbers, but most aren't rated for any pressure, so they fall off very quickly. Honestly, when these high flow controllable pumps came out, I thought they would be used for closed loops and create a resurgence. But they haven't. I really don't get why you would want one on a needle wheel skimmer. The whole point is to have the pump running at high velocity to macerate the air into the smallest bubbles possible. I can't ever see a reason why I would turn the pump down. If you want less air, restrict the air intake. Again, just added complexity for really no benefit. I have burned up 3 dc pumps on name brand skimmers in less than 4 years. Went back to sicce after that. Never looking back. The only reason I would ever have a controllable pump in the future would be on a massive build with closed loops systems. I would either go with Abyzz, or buy my own 3 phase baldor pumps with VFDs and attach them to reeflo or dolphin housings. Those VFDs are used industrially and even have 0-10v inputs so you can control them from almost any controller.

 

[madweazl]

Agree 100%!

 

[ksed]

@TaylorPilot well said. The only benefit of a DC on a skimmer that I can see it adding a float switch on the skimmer cup to turn the pump off in case of overflow.

 

[TaylorPilot]

@TaylorPilot well said. The only benefit of a DC on a skimmer that I can see it adding a float switch on the skimmer cup to turn the pump off in case of overflow.

That would be smart, but you can do that with an AC pump as well.

http://www.autotopoff.com/Standard/index.html

One of their single nano's would work good. I have two of their systems that have been running for a decade. I even dropped one of them into saltwater once, and it still works.

 

[afuel]

I’m running 2 vectra pumps in my sump now but haven’t had them long enough to say how good they will be for the long haul. But I do have an Iwaki 30RT external pump running a ETSS skimmer that’s been going for at least 15 yrs now and have never had to replace the shaft seal yet. Pretty amazing I’ve replaced shaft seals on countless pumps in my life related to my work and the vast majority weren’t near that old

 

[Karl M]

I’m still old school Life guard quiet one. It’s a work horse and reliable. My boy has been running for close to 10 years.

Used them for years great pumps. Had 4 brand new in the box (originals) until some Yahoo! Liked my stuff in my storage unit better than I did a couple years back.

 

[TaylorPilot]

I’m running 2 vectra pumps in my sump now but haven’t had them long enough to say how good they will be for the long haul. But I do have an Iwaki 30RT external pump running a ETSS skimmer that’s been going for at least 15 yrs now and have never had to replace the shaft seal yet. Pretty amazing I’ve replaced shaft seals on countless pumps in my life related to my work and the vast majority weren’t near that old

And you'll never have to because it doesnt have one. They are magnetically coupled. The motor has a magnet in the shape of a cup attached to it. Inside the pump housing the impeller has a cylinder shaped magnet. There is a thin plastic housing holding the entire wet side. As the motor spins the magnet, the magnet spins the impeller. The impeller isnt physically connected to the motor shaft. It works just like an mp40.

 

[Richards_reef]

I love my Varios 4. The Red Dragon is 2-3x the Varios, and I'm shopping for a return for my next build. Do you think the Red Dragon is worth it, aka would you make the same purchase again?

In my opinion red dragon is a pump to get if your in this hobby for life. If your not sure if you will have an aquarium 2-5 years in the future, then pumps at a lower price point make more sense.
My next return pump will most likely be a red dragon or abyzz

 

[Forsaken77]

I'm against using any DC return pump so I will eliminate any of the excellent manufacturers that make them as part of this discussion.

Ehiem and Danner Supreme mag drive pumps are both a great value. Quiet, and they just work.

Sicce - Again, quiet and reliable. Gotta love having a 5 year warranty. Adjustable flow without needing an electronic controller.

Iwaki - About as good as it gets for value in a true pressure rated pump.

Don't know if you answered this, but why are you against dc return pumps? They save energy based on the needed flow instead of throttling down an overpowered ac pump, and are extremely quiet.

Just curious for the reasoning behind avoiding a dc pump.

 

[Brew12]

Don't know if you answered this, but why are you against dc return pumps? They save energy based on the needed flow instead of throttling down an overpowered ac pump, and are extremely quiet.

Just curious for the reasoning behind avoiding a dc pump.

The number one reason is reliability. Having a controller is one additional failure point. I also don't think variable flow is necessary for a return pump.

The energy savings are often poorly understood. In a low head pressure situation a properly sized AC pump will be more efficient than a properly sized DC pump. If you throttle them both down far enough then yes, the DC pump becomes more energy efficient. Some DC pump manufacturers list the power used by the pump when they provide ratings and leave out the 10%+ losses from the controller. If you do the math to see how much efficiency you gain in most DC pump installations it would take 4+ years to pay for the additional cost of the DC pump. Many DC pumps aren't lasting that long meaning you may save energy but you are still losing money.

I will say that if I had a basement sump, I would run DC. In high head pressure setups like this a DC pump can be much more efficient.

 

[afuel]

And you'll never have to because it doesnt have one. They are magnetically coupled. The motor has a magnet in the shape of a cup attached to it. Inside the pump housing the impeller has a cylinder shaped magnet. There is a thin plastic housing holding the entire wet side. As the motor spins the magnet, the magnet spins the impeller. The impeller isnt physically connected to the motor shaft. It works just like an mp40.

Hah I obviously didn’t know that. The pump came with the skimmer so I never really researched it. Nice to know. I’ll have to say I’m a big fan of magnetically driven impellers it’s one reason I picked vectra pumps for in sump use

 

[JDowns]

There are so many right answers for this poll. But I kept it simple. Red Dragon simply makes a bullet proof pump. For my nano, I'm really liking the new Innovative Marine pump which isn't on the list.

 

[JDowns]

Jebao / Jecod shouldn't even be on the list IMO. A business who's sole business model is the theft of intellectual property simply shouldn't be supported.

 

[Rjramos]

In my opinion, DC is only better in power consumption vs AC. And in this reef business of encrusting organisms and calcification, external pumps are better. No heat exchange with water. No electric motor in the water, and when it comes time to do maintenance a lot easier to undo 2 unions and clean. Iwaki reliable and quietest. Currently running blueline for a bunch of years and very dependable but noisy. I ran little giants for years too but again noisy!

 

[TaylorPilot]

In my opinion, DC is only better in power consumption vs AC. And in this reef business of encrusting organisms and calcification, external pumps are better. No heat exchange with water. No electric motor in the water, and when it comes time to do maintenance a lot easier to undo 2 unions and clean. Iwaki reliable and quietest. Currently running blueline for a bunch of years and very dependable but noisy. I ran little giants for years too but again noisy!

Another cool benefit of running external pumps is if you have a custom or DIY sump, you can make your return pump section only a few inches. That way you can have a larger fuge or skimmer section.

 

[Brew12]

No heat exchange with water.

I agree with this for the most part. I would clarify that not all of the heat is exchanged with the water on an external pump. Depending on the design, more than half the heat is still dissipated into the water on external pumps.

 

[Rjramos]

Another cool benefit of running external pumps is if you have a custom or DIY sump, you can make your return pump section only a few inches. That way you can have a larger fuge or skimmer section.

But you gotta have the external space. I have installed plenty of times with a 90 elbow on the pump intake after the bulkhead. I don’t think it takes away too much output .

 

[Tarpongriller]

I’m running 2 varios 6 return pumps on #2 speed on my 120. Like the redundancy.

 

[siggy]

. I really don't get why you would want one on a needle wheel skimmer.

It sure is NICE to to increase or decrease skimm rate with a push of a button instead of
levers, screws and valves and then going back and checking results,then more adjustments so on. I am loving my new RO with Varios, tons of foam at any setting.

buy my own 3 phase baldor pumps with VFDs and attach them to reeflo or dolphin housings. Those VFDs are used industrially and even have 0-10v inputs so you can control them from almost any controller.

You can't do better than a Baldor in any Industry. But with using a 3 phase motor and a single phase source you would need to double the size of the VFD and supply current, there goes any cost or efficiency advantage, also you need to be sure of the Insulation rating on the motor can handle a VFD application.

But I do have an Iwaki

We use these at work on Temp controlled Sealer dispensing units to circulate chilled water. We don't even keep a spare, Seen one failure and we scavenged one from a old unit.