Bi- Color Cleaner Wrasse help

[fugetaboutit05]

Just brought home 2 bi- color cleaner wrasse recently. I've kept the blue streak before and had success with them but lost them along with other members of the community in a system crash 8 months ago.

I've always considered these fish a necessary part of a functional system where outside of my prize members, everyone has a job. These guys are in my opinion, an important part of my community.

Short back story, I made critical error about 10 months ago, took about 2 months for everything to come to an end. Lost 7 fish and all coral in the process, was left with 4 members. Decided to wait several months to kick everything back up. Now is that time. For the past several weeks I've been working on revamping my system.

Currently it is a fowler system and I've built up the community to 9 members. 11 now with the pair of cleaners.

I've read up on these specific species of cleaner wrasse and understand that they can be a little tenacious in their duties but being I've kept the style of tank as semi aggressive I don't see to much of an issue with their persistence.

My question is, I have a pair of maroon clownfish, today I witnessed her allowing one the wrasse to clean her gill. This wrasse was pulling something out of her. She had never shown any sign of illness, distress, scratching, diving, or lack of appetite. But now I'm concerned for her. Whatever it was this wrasse was pulling out she had to have wanted out because she allowed it to keep going and she can be aggressive and physical when she wants to be. She also has the physical size to be a problem if she deems it necessary.

This wrasse was putting in work too, like it was struggling to get whatever it was out of her gill. Pulling hard, jerking side to side. This I've never seen before from the bluestreak. The content was white coming out of her gill,

Are the bi-color cleaners a better cleaner wrasse?

What could it have been it was pulling out of her gill?

She has since had enough of the process and turned aggressive to let the wrasse know she is done and is now back in her nem with her partner. The side that was worked on is what she is keeping towards the nem so I can't even see it.

Flukes? Ich? Asking to see if anyone had seen this before and what to look for moving forward.

 

[MysticBlue]

Just brought home 2 bi- color cleaner wrasse recently. I've kept the blue streak before and had success with them but lost them along with other members of the community in a system crash 8 months ago.

I've always considered these fish a necessary part of a functional system where outside of my prize members, everyone has a job. These guys are in my opinion, an important part of my community.

Short back story, I made critical error about 10 months ago, took about 2 months for everything to come to an end. Lost 7 fish and all coral in the process, was left with 4 members. Decided to wait several months to kick everything back up. Now is that time. For the past several weeks I've been working on revamping my system.

Currently it is a fowler system and I've built up the community to 9 members. 11 now with the pair of cleaners.

I've read up on these specific species of cleaner wrasse and understand that they can be a little tenacious in their duties but being I've kept the style of tank as semi aggressive I don't see to much of an issue with their persistence.

My question is, I have a pair of maroon clownfish, today I witnessed her allowing one the wrasse to clean her gill. This wrasse was pulling something out of her. She had never shown any sign of illness, distress, scratching, diving, or lack of appetite. But now I'm concerned for her. Whatever it was this wrasse was pulling out she had to have wanted out because she allowed it to keep going and she can be aggressive and physical when she wants to be. She also has the physical size to be a problem if she deems it necessary.

This wrasse was putting in work too, like it was struggling to get whatever it was out of her gill. Pulling hard, jerking side to side. This I've never seen before from the bluestreak. The content was white coming out of her gill,

Are the bi-color cleaners a better cleaner wrasse?

What could it have been it was pulling out of her gill?

She has since had enough of the process and turned aggressive to let the wrasse know she is done and is now back in her nem with her partner. The side that was worked on is what she is keeping towards the nem so I can't even see it.

Flukes? Ich? Asking to see if anyone had seen this before and what to look for moving forward.

A picture would be fantastic!!! Under white light. If there is something in there the wrasse will pull it out eventually.

 

[fugetaboutit05]

A picture would be fantastic!!! Under white light. If there is something in there the wrasse will pull it out eventually.

I will try. I've l tried to take pics before but nothing ever comes out clear. But i will try tomorrow and post results

 

[i cant think]

Just brought home 2 bi- color cleaner wrasse recently. I've kept the blue streak before and had success with them but lost them along with other members of the community in a system crash 8 months ago.

I've always considered these fish a necessary part of a functional system where outside of my prize members, everyone has a job. These guys are in my opinion, an important part of my community.

Short back story, I made critical error about 10 months ago, took about 2 months for everything to come to an end. Lost 7 fish and all coral in the process, was left with 4 members. Decided to wait several months to kick everything back up. Now is that time. For the past several weeks I've been working on revamping my system.

Currently it is a fowler system and I've built up the community to 9 members. 11 now with the pair of cleaners.

I've read up on these specific species of cleaner wrasse and understand that they can be a little tenacious in their duties but being I've kept the style of tank as semi aggressive I don't see to much of an issue with their persistence.

My question is, I have a pair of maroon clownfish, today I witnessed her allowing one the wrasse to clean her gill. This wrasse was pulling something out of her. She had never shown any sign of illness, distress, scratching, diving, or lack of appetite. But now I'm concerned for her. Whatever it was this wrasse was pulling out she had to have wanted out because she allowed it to keep going and she can be aggressive and physical when she wants to be. She also has the physical size to be a problem if she deems it necessary.

This wrasse was putting in work too, like it was struggling to get whatever it was out of her gill. Pulling hard, jerking side to side. This I've never seen before from the bluestreak. The content was white coming out of her gill,

Are the bi-color cleaners a better cleaner wrasse?

What could it have been it was pulling out of her gill?

She has since had enough of the process and turned aggressive to let the wrasse know she is done and is now back in her nem with her partner. The side that was worked on is what she is keeping towards the nem so I can't even see it.

Flukes? Ich? Asking to see if anyone had seen this before and what to look for moving forward.

Bicolours aren’t ‘better’ cleaners, however they’re the larger cleaner (I believe the Bicolor is the biggest of the Labroides genus) and are likely able to pull out larger parasites. As for what it may be, without a photo it’s hard to say exactly.

 

[fugetaboutit05]

Bicolours aren’t ‘better’ cleaners, however they’re the larger cleaner (I believe the Bicolor is the biggest of the Labroides genus) and are likely able to pull out larger parasites. As for what it may be, without a photo it’s hard to say exactly.

Being able to pull out larger parasites, does this make them less effective at the smaller parasites in turn? Such as ich?

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Being able to pull out larger parasites, does this make them less effective at the smaller parasites in turn? Such as ich?

Cleaner wrasses can't really do much about ich. Ich, when visible on a fish, is in a stage where they are basically unreachable, as the white spots we see are the fish's mucous capping the area where the parasite embeds in an attempt to kill it. Obviously, this doesn't work, and eventually the parasite will fall off and reproduce in the substrate. This is also why medications don't affect ich in this stage.

Flukes can be eaten by cleaner wrasses, but they're so small I seriously doubt you would see the fish pulling something large off your clown.

My guess it would have been some kind of worm, but I couldn't say anything about specifics. The other possibility is that cleaner wrasses also clean off dead tissue, however fish having dead gill tissue is not very common.

 

[fugetaboutit05]

Cleaner wrasses can't really do much about ich. Ich, when visible on a fish, is in a stage where they are basically unreachable, as the white spots we see are the fish's mucous capping the area where the parasite embeds in an attempt to kill it. Obviously, this doesn't work, and eventually the parasite will fall off and reproduce in the substrate. This is also why medications don't affect ich in this stage.

Flukes can be eaten by cleaner wrasses, but they're so small I seriously doubt you would see the fish pulling something large off your clown.

My guess it would have been some kind of worm, but I couldn't say anything about specifics. The other possibility is that cleaner wrasses also clean off dead tissue, however fish having dead gill tissue is not very common.

Now this is going back to a year ago, before my unfortunate incident. When i had the pair of blue streaks, I had brought home a purple tang. Fish looked fine in lfs, passed all "eye" tests that I was looking for. Did well in QT, added to the DT, exploded in ich within days. Thought it was velvet and to be honest it could have been. The blue streaks went to work. It took some time but the purple tang did wind up healing and I do attribute a good part of its survival to the cleaner wrasse.

The white spots being the caps, when the wrasse pick them off, the parasite doesn't come with it?

I had been led to believe that cleaner wrasse can clean all parasites from fish and even have an effect on "free floating" parasites. I've tried to keep cleaner shrimp but the community never sees them as anything more than an expensive meal. I've recently tried putting a few in the Refugium to see if that will work but thar idea is only a week old.

Now, as far as medication, I'm always limited on what I can use due to the tank community being compromised off all types of members including inverts.

Removing certain fish had always led to death due to the strain and stress of catching and moving to QT.

Hence, the cleaner wrasse were thought to be the best option at catching any and all parasitic invasions or flare ups.

My biggest reason right now for this post was the maroon clown. I was unsure of what that could have been. But, the cleaner wrasse were added according to my time line for an Achilles tang. This is my first attempt at keeping an Achilles and I have done ALOT of reading on them. Very similar to the powder blue, naso, and hippo in regard to being a carrier for ich and being prone to random explosions. Widely considered a very active, aggressive, weakling lol. So if the wrasse can't help with ich, and I can't add cleaner shrimp to the display for stations, is there another method. I ask because this is the first time someone has told me the wrasse won't be effective in dealing with and helping to subdue an ich breakout.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Now this is going back to a year ago, before my unfortunate incident. When i had the pair of blue streaks, I had brought home a purple tang. Fish looked fine in lfs, passed all "eye" tests that I was looking for. Did well in QT, added to the DT, exploded in ich within days. Thought it was velvet and to be honest it could have been. The blue streaks went to work. It took some time but the purple tang did wind up healing and I do attribute a good part of its survival to the cleaner wrasse.

The white spots being the caps, when the wrasse pick them off, the parasite doesn't come with it?

I had been led to believe that cleaner wrasse can clean all parasites from fish and even have an effect on "free floating" parasites. I've tried to keep cleaner shrimp but the community never sees them as anything more than an expensive meal. I've recently tried putting a few in the Refugium to see if that will work but thar idea is only a week old.

Now, as far as medication, I'm always limited on what I can use due to the tank community being compromised off all types of members including inverts.

Removing certain fish had always led to death due to the strain and stress of catching and moving to QT.

Hence, the cleaner wrasse were thought to be the best option at catching any and all parasitic invasions or flare ups.

My biggest reason right now for this post was the maroon clown. I was unsure of what that could have been. But, the cleaner wrasse were added according to my time line for an Achilles tang. This is my first attempt at keeping an Achilles and I have done ALOT of reading on them. Very similar to the powder blue, naso, and hippo in regard to being a carrier for ich and being prone to random explosions. Widely considered a very active, aggressive, weakling lol. So if the wrasse can't help with ich, and I can't add cleaner shrimp to the display for stations, is there another method. I ask because this is the first time someone has told me the wrasse won't be effective in dealing with and helping to subdue an ich breakout.

It may be the case that they can remove the cap with the parasite inside, I can't say definitively if that's true or not. The cap is not the product of the parasite, it's the fish's mucus layer thickened over the parasite. I just assume that medications being unable to reach the parasite in that stage means cleaners probably can't do anything either. Ich's life cycle involves them falling off the fish anyway, so a lot of people think the fish is being cured by outside factors when it's just the parasite going through the motions.

In regards to the purple tang, on top of the above statement, sometimes fish are "cured" by the development of resistance as well. Fish that are introduced to ich in an aquarium and survive the initial outbreak may never be reinfected in that aquarium (barring a stressful event that weakens their immune system). This sounds fine, until you add a new fish and they get covered in the disease and don't survive their infection.

Even if cleaner wrasse could clean all parasites off of fish, the parasite load in an aquarium versus the ocean is very different. I often get asked if fish get things like ich and flukes in the ocean. Of course they do, they're just not locked in a small box that's loaded with thousands upon thousands of them. They may get one or even a few dozen at a time in the wild, but when the parasite falls off to reproduce, the fish just keep going about their lives, which means they aren't stuck in place waiting for the parasites' offspring to come out and latch back on. The point is, cleaner wrasses and shrimp can certainly help alleviate the stresses of being infected, but I don't believe they are a comprehensive cure.

The only way to really eradicate fish parasites is to either treat the entire tank (which is not possible with your inverts inside) or remove all the fish, treat them in a separate quarantine, and leave the display fishless (fallow) for at least a month (but longer is ideal). Without a host, the parasites will die off, and the clean fish can be reintroduced with little to no fear of reinfection barring some error on the aquarist's part, like cross contamination or a faulty quarantine procedure. It's not what most people want to hear, but it's the only near-guaranteed way to deal with these diseases, especially if you're thinking of playing with some of the "ich magnets."