Biofloc as live feed for larvae?

Levinson

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Hi, while thinking about what to feed my shrimp larvae, I had thought of an idea and I was hoping someone knowledgeable in the field could let me know if it is possible.
Would it be possible to run a small scale biofloc culture at home (not to grow anything in it but just to culture the heterotrophic bacteria) and use it as the biofloc/bacteria as the live feed for the larvae?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand it, biofloc is basically carbon dosing. The aquaculture industry uses it to have the heterotrophic bacteria consume nitrogen sources from the left over feed and animal poo and form mass flocs of the heterotrophic bacteria bloom by adding carbon source, aeration (oxygen) and keeping them in suspension. The biofloc is then consumed by the animal being cultured. I read the biofloc (the heterotrophic bacteria) is an excellent food source for aquacultured shrimps.
The aim is to have a relatively easy to culture, nutritious and continuous source of live small food for planktonic larvae (Live, so that the water doesn't start to go bad as soon as I put it into the tank).

So,
1. If I get a jar/bottle,
2. mix some saltwater,
3. add some fish food (nitrogen source),
4. add some carbon source (sugar, vodka etc),
5. keep the carbon to nitrogen ratio right (C/N: 15~20/1),
6. maintain alkalinity by adding baking soda,
6. add some bacteria (Microbacter 7 or other product which contains heterotrophic bacteria)
7. and aerate it (to provide oxygen and to keep stuff stay afloat),

Would I end up getting some biofloc culture in the jar which I could then feed the animals with?
The culture jar would not need any larger animals living in it and hopefully, this would make the process a bit easier if this actually is possible or viable.
I might've made it sound easy but I'm sure it wouldn't be in that simple. What could be the potential risks?
Any input would be much appreciated!
 

ichthyogeek

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So the way that I understand it, biofloc and other bacterial foods are based off of either large masses of bacteria, or bacteria that subsist off of organic material (clumped up phytoplankton, fish and other animal waste, decaying animals, etc.).

Your plan looks sound, but I would imagine that instead of culturing bioflocs, you'd just...culture heterotrophic bacteria in layers. Adding in a carbon source would be great, but in order to get the bioflocs, I think you'd have to find some form of small particulate matter for the bioflocs to form on. Think of things like fish waste, the clumped up phytoplankton that happens if you culture it wrong, etc.

Certainly, biofloc is highly nutritious, and certain larvae (eel leptocephali, for example) are known to feast on bioflocs. But I think it would not be efficient enough to do so as a primary food source for shrimp.

Regardless of whatever shrimp you're feeding (vannameid, sexy, peppermint, cleaner, etc.), most sources I know of (family, books, papers) seem to agree that baby brine shrimp make a good first food. It's certainly easy to hatch them, and they are known to be highly nutritious.
 

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Science is sound and has been implemented in commercial mariculture.

Google Tzachi Samocha. I toured Texas AgriLife Research Mariculture Laboratory Lab at Flour Bluff. Since he was director there, he has retired into consulting for mom & pop intensive shrimp cultivation farms using bio flock. He sells cultivated feed stock.

During his test, shrimp harvest density exceeded
1 lbs/cubic foot


 
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Your plan looks sound, but I would imagine that instead of culturing bioflocs, you'd just...culture heterotrophic bacteria in layers. Adding in a carbon source would be great, but in order to get the bioflocs, I think you'd have to find some form of small particulate matter for the bioflocs to form on. Think of things like fish waste, the clumped up phytoplankton that happens if you culture it wrong, etc.

Certainly, biofloc is highly nutritious, and certain larvae (eel leptocephali, for example) are known to feast on bioflocs. But I think it would not be efficient enough to do so as a primary food source for shrimp.

Regardless of whatever shrimp you're feeding (vannameid, sexy, peppermint, cleaner, etc.), most sources I know of (family, books, papers) seem to agree that baby brine shrimp make a good first food. It's certainly easy to hatch them, and they are known to be highly nutritious.
Thank you for the input!
May I ask what you mean by "instead of culturing bioflocs, you'd just...culture heterotrophic bacteria in layers."?
Baby brine shrimps are fine and all but if viable, I thought this method might be a cheap way to diversify the feed and also since it's not easy to have bb ready for the larvae in time, it'd be nice to have something to feed the larvae while I ready the brine shrimps.
 
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Science is sound and has been implemented in commercial mariculture.

Google Tzachi Samocha. I toured Texas AgriLife Research Mariculture Laboratory Lab at Flour Bluff. Since he was director there, he has retired into consulting for mom & pop intensive shrimp cultivation farms using bio flock. He sells cultivated feed stock.

During his test, shrimp harvest density exceeded
1 lbs/cubic foot
Thanks for the info Subsea. I will look into it.
I'm a little worried about trying it out since I don't know enough about the subject. I don't even know what questions to ask. Maybe some terrible bacterial infection might wipe out the entire tank.
At the same time, I'm very tempted to give it a go.
 

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Thanks for the info Subsea. I will look into it.
I'm a little worried about trying it out since I don't know enough about the subject. I don't even know what questions to ask. Maybe some terrible bacterial infection might wipe out the entire tank.
At the same time, I'm very tempted to give it a go.

I know a lot about it and I would not do it for a simple experiment, but I am not a research scientist, I am a marine engineer. It takes a real commitment to bioflock protocoal to grow got shrimp larvae.
 
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I know a lot about it and I would not do it for a simple experiment, but I am not a research scientist, I am a marine engineer. It takes a real commitment to bioflock protocoal to grow got shrimp larvae.
Even if the shrimps aren't actually going to be living in the biofloc system?
 

ichthyogeek

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Thank you for the input!
May I ask what you mean by "instead of culturing bioflocs, you'd just...culture heterotrophic bacteria in layers."?
Baby brine shrimps are fine and all but if viable, I thought this method might be a cheap way to diversify the feed and also since it's not easy to have bb ready for the larvae in time, it'd be nice to have something to feed the larvae while I ready the brine shrimps.
Well, it sounds to me like you’re not adding any attachment sites. Without attachment sites, I can’t imagine the bacteria will just magically grow in the water. So my thinking is that without adding the attachment sites (fish waste, clumped up phytoplankton, etc), you’ll probably end up with layers of heterotrophic bacteria on the sides of the culture container instead.

Have you read Kirkendoll’s guide in raising peppermint shrimp? She said some interesting things about using flake food after certain times of development. And depending on what species you’re working with, it might be that you can get a pretty decent schedule of when eggs will appear and therefore when they will hatch based off of water temperature.
 

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Even if the shrimps aren't actually going to be living in the biofloc system?
I don’t know enough to have an opinion. Intensive shrimp aquaculture grew out shrimp as fast as possible and batch harvested. Thus shrimp lived & grew in bioflock.
 
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Well, it sounds to me like you’re not adding any attachment sites. Without attachment sites, I can’t imagine the bacteria will just magically grow in the water. So my thinking is that without adding the attachment sites (fish waste, clumped up phytoplankton, etc), you’ll probably end up with layers of heterotrophic bacteria on the sides of the culture container instead.

Have you read Kirkendoll’s guide in raising peppermint shrimp? She said some interesting things about using flake food after certain times of development. And depending on what species you’re working with, it might be that you can get a pretty decent schedule of when eggs will appear and therefore when they will hatch based off of water temperature.
Oh I was hoping the fish feed I put in as nitrogen source would work as the attachment sites. I was also thinking about maybe using some algae bits from my ATS or the skimmate.
Yes, I have read Kirkendoll’s guide in raising peppermint shrimp. Great book, I have it right next to me :) .
I'm trying to raise Sexy shrimps. I'm in the process of failing my second batch. (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-sexy-shrimp-just-gave-birth-but-i-wasnt-ready.778019/).
I can work out about 1~2 hours before they hatch by observing them and also know that it takes about 14 days for them to hatch but I just could not know when or if they've mated with them being so small and hiding about. Only able to guess by looking at the molt cuz they mate after they molt but even that is hard to know since, unlike the larger shirmps, the empty shells are so small they are easy to miss and just molted sexys look pretty much the same as before molt.
I have brine eggs on their way and plan on fixing the suspension issue so hopefully, I'll have better luck next time.
 

ichthyogeek

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Hmm....curious, but have you tried adding in a quality flake food to see if the larval shrimp will nom on that while you get the brine shrimp ready?

What type of display are the shrimp in? Is it such a large tank that it's difficult/hard to find them and observe if they've got eggs?
 
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Hmm....curious, but have you tried adding in a quality flake food to see if the larval shrimp will nom on that while you get the brine shrimp ready?

What type of display are the shrimp in? Is it such a large tank that it's difficult/hard to find them and observe if they've got eggs?
The flake foods are also on their way.
No, it's not large at all. Just a small tank (29g).
Maybe it's just me but it's not easy for me tell if they've got eggs or not (unless they are close to hatching). They are just too small for me.
 

ichthyogeek

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I love how 29 gallons is small on the saltwater side of the hobby, but medium large on the freshwater side.

I feel you on not seeing the eggs sometimes. I have to wear glasses, and if I don't take them off, it can be hard to locate brine shrimp nauplii next to the glass.

Are your shrimp on a cycle yet? Like, are they reliably releasing larvae every time period? What you could do, is if you know they're bound to release the eggs in a smaller time frame (like a week), you won't spend as much time hatching brine shrimp. OR, what you can do, is just toss the leftover brine shrimp in a bin and rear them while you wait for the sexy shrimp to release their young. Either way, it shouldn't be too much wasteage, and the fish or whatever systems you have will appreciate a snack of brine shrimp.
 
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Are your shrimp on a cycle yet? Like, are they reliably releasing larvae every time period? What you could do, is if you know they're bound to release the eggs in a smaller time frame (like a week), you won't spend as much time hatching brine shrimp. OR, what you can do, is just toss the leftover brine shrimp in a bin and rear them while you wait for the sexy shrimp to release their young. Either way, it shouldn't be too much wasteage, and the fish or whatever systems you have will appreciate a snack of brine shrimp.
I sure hope the shrimps are on a cycle but I'll have to wait and see.
Flakes while getting ready for brine shrimp to hatch sound like the best bet for now.
 

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