Black Bugs - An Acro keepers worst nightmare?

[305Reefer]

Dip will not work as you found. Interceptor pill from a vet is the surest bet

Interceptor does NOT work on black bugs. If you read thru this thread. I've dipped them in a 1000x dose (an entire large dog breed pill in a cup of water) and it did nothing after several hours.

Interceptor works on red bugs, not black bugs. Black bugs are borderline impossible to kill. They survived 24 hours in milky white bayer, multiple hours in a 1000x interceptor dose, potassium chloride, iodine, reef dip, etc. The only thing that kills them is a 4x dose of CoralRX for about 10 minutes, this works perfectly, unfortunately it also kills basically any coral other than the strongest of zoas.

 

[305Reefer]

Hello, i personally stand that once you introduce that pest, its nearly impossible to avoid losing acros.

I tried everything. Dipping, cutting, moving to diffrent places in aquarium. I lost.

-That pest is active mostly at night.
-I think that it lays eggs inside skeleton, that is why dipping isnt enough.
-It spreads very fast and randomly. I still dont know how, but it may occur in completly diffrent part of aquarium in one day.

I agree with all of these, there is a way to save the actual coral strain, but not the colony itself. If you cut far from the base, on purely healthy tissue, dip and then move to a QT tank you can atleast save yourself the cost of rebuying the frag. But trying to save a grown in acropora tank isn't happening. Making these guys, by far the biggest nightmare for a acropora collector.

And for anyone reading this thread who doesnt know what they look like (There are two varieties, one far worse than the other, these are the really bad guys.







You can see in my last video, that I'm not making these claims lightly. I spent an entire week dipping different chemicals and treatments testing efficacy and I found none that would kill the bug without killing the coral as well.. Not to mention the fact the eggs are most lilkely being laid inside the skeleton of the coral.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Interceptor does NOT work on black bugs. If you read thru this thread. I've dipped them in a 1000x dose (an entire large dog breed pill in a cup of water) and it did nothing after several hours.

Interceptor works on red bugs, not black bugs. Black bugs are borderline impossible to kill. They survived 24 hours in milky white bayer, multiple hours in a 1000x interceptor dose, potassium chloride, iodine, reef dip, etc. The only thing that kills them is a 4x dose of CoralRX for about 10 minutes, this works perfectly, unfortunately it also kills basically any coral other than the strongest of zoas.

Actually that is red bug recipe. For black bugs, Dr G's Does work. Others I know have used 4 ml of bayer to 10 ml of water in which it kills them dead. I really don't think you can put in to much bayer but you can put in too little in my experience. I will say, I know of some who used Bayer with no success. Dr G's seemed to be the ticket

 

[Coronus]

I wonder if the big vendors could chime in here….I mean they must have the most experience with these bugs as they are bringing in most of the wild and mariculture cultured colonies into the US and selling them. I know they have strong dipping in quarantine procedures but what do they do when they get these bugs in if no dip is working? They have to be getting through somehow to the hobbyist level. They didn’t originate in our tanks. These bugs came from the ocean.

 

[305Reefer]

Actually that is red bug recipe. For black bugs, Dr G's Does work. Others I know have used 4 ml of bayer to 10 ml of water in which it kills them dead. I really don't think you can put in to much bayer but you can put in too little in my experience. I will say, I know of some who used Bayer with no success. Dr G's seemed to be the ticket

Dr. G's is the exact same thing as Interceptor, milbemycin oxime. It's the equivalent of one Large Breed Pill diluted into RODI. They may have had the smaller less globular black bugs that look just like red bugs but black. Those are far easier to kill.. The little tank like grey ones do not respond to Milbemycin oxime at any dose. I tested it under a microscope. When I tested with bayer insect killer, I did a brutal dose. The water was pure milk consistency, and they lasted overnight and all of the next morning. Pretty sure they died from no oxygen, either way you cant dip a coral in strong bayer for 20 hours and thats also not going to help you save an acro tank with black bugs.

 

[305Reefer]

I wonder if the big vendors could chime in here….I mean they must have the most experience with these bugs as they are bringing in most of the wild and mariculture cultured colonies into the US and selling them. I know they have strong dipping in quarantine procedures but what do they do when they get these bugs in if no dip is working? They have to be getting through somehow to the hobbyist level. They didn’t originate in our tanks. These bugs came from the ocean.

Vendors dont have to deal with black bugs at all. When they bring in wild and mariculture they rarely stay in their tanks long enough to see them start doing damage. From the moment you get a single black bug in your tank until they are making acropora vanish in days, it takes months and months for them to get to a critical population from eggs.

Any vendor who is aquaculturing acropora is doing very intense QT and will most likely throw the coral away after multiple dips don't do the trick. Its important to note, if you dip an infected coral and move it to a new tank with no black bugs in it, the coral will do fantastic and recooperate quickly, appearing to have solved the issue. It takes months and months for the black bugs to reproduce to that critical level again.

Also worth mentioning, these black bugs seem to be extremely rare in the hobby. Just be searching on R2R you can see red bugs and AEFW are probably a thousand times more common than black bugs. To the point that alot of people have no idea whats going on, even after searching on r2r or other coral publications. There is almost no literature on them, very few people have done research on them, and they have yet to be scientifically identified unlike other more common pests.

 

[Coronus]

With all due respect, that doesn’t make much sense. Of course they’re dealing with black bugs. These large vendors are the ones bringing in these colonies from the wild. So of course they’re dealing with them. Who else would be dealing with them initially. Obviously when they’re reviewing the pieces and quarantining them, you’re probably right, they’re throwing them away when they find them. But somehow, some are getting through. I am only mentioning this because maybe these vendors have figured out ways to eradicate them. But, sometimes some just get through and there’s nothing you can do about it. I would just like to hear from some of the big vendors on what they’re doing when they see them? Because of course they’re seeing them.

 

[305Reefer]

With all due respect, that doesn’t make much sense. Of course they’re dealing with black bugs. These large vendors are the ones bringing in these colonies from the wild. So of course they’re dealing with them. Who else would be dealing with them initially. Obviously when they’re reviewing the pieces and quarantining them, you’re probably right, they’re throwing them away when they find them. But somehow, some are getting through. I am only mentioning this because maybe these vendors have figured out ways to eradicate them. But, sometimes some just get through and there’s nothing you can do about it. I would just like to hear from some of the big vendors on what they’re doing when they see them? Because of course they’re seeing them.

My whole point is they are not actually dealing with them. They sell the coral way before they ever see the symptoms. They never have to worry about dealing with them. Also despite knowing several very large importers of acropora, very few have ever dealt with Black Bugs. They are RARE is what im trying to tell you. When I first got them, I reached out to dozen of the biggest Acro people I knew, and none of them had ever gotten them and most had never even heard of them. I promise you they are NOT seeing them. I can make a pretty large list of the biggest acro vendors and talk to them and I bet you bottom dollar, very few if any have had them or dealt with them. Off hand I know 10-12 huge vendors that i personally spoke to with zero knowledge of them.

 

[TMC1313]

I noticed about 6 weeks ago half of my acros started to STN at their bases and encrusting parts. I've been scratching my head after dipping a few thinking it could be AEFW even though I've never seen any bite marks, but never saw any worms. Then I was thinking something was off with my parameters, but this to didn't make sense and everything checked out. I just stumbled onto this thread and now I'm thinking black bugs. So if I dip a couple acros tonight in revive will I need to do 4x the regular dose to see them or will a regular dose do the trick? FYI, I don't remember seeing anything with a regular dose when I was looking for AEFW.

 

[305Reefer]

I noticed about 6 weeks ago half of my acros started to STN at their bases and encrusting parts. I've been scratching my head after dipping a few thinking it could be AEFW even though I've never seen any bite marks, but never saw any worms. Then I was thinking something was off with my parameters, but this to didn't make sense and everything checked out. I just stumbled onto this thread and now I'm thinking black bugs. So if I dip a couple acros tonight in revive will I need to do 4x the regular dose to see them or will a regular dose do the trick? FYI, I don't remember seeing anything with a regular dose when I was looking for AEFW.

Watch the videos I posted just above. Dip in regular dosage and see if any come off... they are easy to spot once you are in a white container with lots of light and dip. They will appear and then come off the coral. They look like tiny little round slugs, mostly a grey color... In the tank they can be nearly impossible to spot depending on your lighting and how far the acro is from your eyeball..

If you see what I posted.. you got them. If not, keep troubleshooting.

 

[TMC1313]

Well, this isn't the greatest picture, but it's been confirmed. Unfortunately, I have black bugs. They are the more elongated looking black spots. I witnessed them moving before they died.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Actually that is red bug recipe. For black bugs, Dr G's Does work. Others I know have used 4 ml of bayer to 10 ml of water in which it kills them dead. I really don't think you can put in to much bayer but you can put in too little in my experience. I will say, I know of some who used Bayer with no success. Dr G's seemed to be the ticket

What’s the Dr. G’s recommended dosage? I do not have these bugs but I bought some Dr G’s just to have on hand. I tried the instructions on the bottle for the 6 hour dip but it killed the entire coral. Burnt the $&@? Out of it in less than an hour.

 

[305Reefer]

Well, this isn't the greatest picture, but it's been confirmed. Unfortunately, I have black bugs. They are the more elongated looking black spots. I witnessed them moving before they died.

Those dont look like black bugs to me. They aren't elongated. They are round. But its very hard to tell from the photo you posted. Watch the video I posted a few posts up and tell me if you think they are the same thing. They dont look like it to me. It might be the other variety that Ive heard people call "grey bugs" those will die easy with interceptor.

 

[305Reefer]

What’s the Dr. G’s recommended dosage? I do not have these bugs but I bought some Dr G’s just to have on hand. I tried the instructions on the bottle for the 6 hour dip but it killed the entire coral. Burnt the $&@? Out of it in less than an hour.

Dr.G's is just interceptor in water. Ddi you read the directions? You are supposed to mix it with a whole bunch of tank water. The full 8oz bottle mixes with roughly 2.5g of tank water. So you can back it off to 2oz with 3/4 of a gallon of water. It shouldn't burn the coral at all, the coral will be sitting in tank water basically with just a little bit of medicine that isnt toxic to coral... This dip is a bit useless to most reefers, who has 6 hours to dip a coral.

 

[TMC1313]

Agreed, these moved more "worm like" and were slow moving. I will try to get a microscope photo and post when I do.
After doing some more searching I'm pretty sure this is what they are and still not good at all. They are called Halofolliculina corallasia. Here is another photo I found that looks exactly like what I have.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Dr.G's is just interceptor in water. Ddi you read the directions? You are supposed to mix it with a whole bunch of tank water. The full 8oz bottle mixes with roughly 2.5g of tank water. So you can back it off to 2oz with 3/4 of a gallon of water. It shouldn't burn the coral at all, the coral will be sitting in tank water basically with just a little bit of medicine that isnt toxic to coral... This dip is a bit useless to most reefers, who has 6 hours to dip a coral.

The instructions say 2oz of the bottle to 3/4g of tank water for 6 hours.

I actually did 2oz and 2g of tank water and the bath was milky white. Coral was peeling within an hour.
A 6 hour dip is no big deal to me if it works and means I don’t need a qt system like the product claims. If these are the diluting instructions where are the actual application instructions?

 

[305Reefer]

The instructions say 2oz of the bottle to 3/4g of tank water for 6 hours.

I actually did 2oz and 2g of tank water and the bath was milky white. Coral was peeling within an hour.
A 6 hour dip is no big deal to me if it works and means I don’t need a qt system like the product claims. If these are the diluting instructions where are the actual application instructions?

The dip is a clear liquid. I have no idea why it would come out white. I'm very confused. When I was having issue with blackbugs I dumped several bottles of that dip directly into my tank (against instructions recommendations) and nothing happened to my corals at all. Nothing became white.

Very weird.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

The dip is a clear liquid. I have no idea why it would come out white. I'm very confused. When I was having issue with blackbugs I dumped several bottles of that dip directly into my tank (against instructions recommendations) and nothing happened to my corals at all. Nothing became white.

Very weird.

Well there are some reports that the newer “proprietary formula” is no longer the interceptor medication. I usually just bathe my new additions in interceptor for 12-24 hours and have had good success with that but wanted something that doesn’t require a prescription from a vet.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Watch the videos I posted just above. Dip in regular dosage and see if any come off... they are easy to spot once you are in a white container with lots of light and dip. They will appear and then come off the coral. They look like tiny little round slugs, mostly a grey color... In the tank they can be nearly impossible to spot depending on your lighting and how far the acro is from your eyeball..

If you see what I posted.. you got them. If not, keep troubleshooting.

Perfect description

What’s the Dr. G’s recommended dosage? I do not have these bugs but I bought some Dr G’s just to have on hand. I tried the instructions on the bottle for the 6 hour dip but it killed the entire coral. Burnt the $&@? Out of it in less than an hour.

has to be diluted

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Perfect description

has to be diluted

See my post above. I diluted per the instructions on the bottle