Breaker tripping

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It sounds like two branch circuits were improperly interconnected.

That sounds like our barn. We had a good electrician work on our barn system (for solar, car charger, etc.). He installed arc faults on some of the lines, and we later discovered that turning on an overhead light tripped the arc fault every time.

Turns out the power was leaving the panel on one breaker and returning to it via a different breaker.

Got to love these old wiring situations. :(

 

[KStatefan]

I actually home runned (sp?) many of my basement and kitchen receptacles to JBs just so that they could have individual GFCis on them. Nothing is more annoying than some random NON GFCI recetapcle tripping a GFCI and having to remember where the heck it is. My parents house (1978) has a bathroom GFCI that feeds the front porch utility receptacle... Because, you know... in 1978 breakers were $2 each. I have no idea what a 1878 GFI cost.

My parents house in OK about the same year had the opposite. The upstairs bathroom receptacle was feed from the front porch GFCI.

 

[BeanAnimal]

lol

 

[Paul B]

What is this magic penetrox you use in NY and why have I never been given a tube?

Here a few miles west we use NOALOX but I am now reading that it is inferior to your fancy NY brand. Would say, using it to polish a copper fish, prevent it from taking on a time worn patina?

"No Ox, Anti Ox, Penetrox, or NOALOX" It's all semantics and is the same gray goopey stuff.

Bean, I have Noalox, Anti ox, Penetrox, Lox and Bagels etc. It doesn't matter. But just the same, no copper fish for you.

 

[BeanAnimal]

"No Ox, Anti Ox, Penetrox, or NOALOX" It's all semantics and is the same gray goopey stuff.

I just read on the internet that your Penetrox stuff has better quality carrier "grease" and stays put better than my Noalox stuff. I feel like I have used an inferior product all of these years! Truth be told, I may have 20 bottles and tubes of the crap because every time I go to use it, I can't find it and I end up buying new.

Well that was until I spent $5,000 or so on Milwaukee Packout containers -- Now I store my 20 odd tubes of Noalox in an $80 container. I can't help but look at my dozens of pretty red packouts, all organized and nice... and wonder what I was thinking. Many cost more than the contents that they organize. But they sure are pretty.

Bean, I have Noalox, Anti ox, Penetrox, Lox and Bagels etc. It doesn't matter. But just the same, no copper fish for you.

But... please?

My precious

 

[Paul B]

I just read on the internet that your Penetrox stuff has better quality carrier "grease" and stays put better than my Noalox stuff.

Bean, don't believe everything you read. I posted quite a few articles in paper magazines before someone invented computers. (Paper is what we make trees out of) and everything I ever wrote was published with no one checking anything. I could have been a bowlegged, bald alien with a social disease from the far side of Mars, living in a pool of Penetrox under a rock and no one ever checked anything I ever wrote.

 

[W31Olds]

No offense to Paul B. and Bean, you gentlemen clearly know what you're talking about with regards to NEC House wiring and if I were the OP would welcome any advice you have to offer about what questions he should ask about bidding his repair work. He clearly knows very little about Electrical work and as you know, when speaking with Tradespeople, knowledge is power. Sounds like he was already overcharged for flipping a breaker. At the very least he should get multiple bids and a load calculation for his Tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

No offense to Paul B. and Bean, you gentlemen clearly know what you're talking about with regards to NEC House wiring and if I were the OP would welcome any advice you have to offer about what questions he should ask about bidding his repair work. He clearly knows very little about Electrical work and as you know, when speaking with Tradespeople, knowledge is power. Sounds like he was already overcharged for flipping a breaker. At the very least he should get multiple bids and a load calculation for his Tank.

I don't disagree. The problem is that he is still at the mercy of whoever places the bids. It is hard to find good contractors, especially if the work is out of your area of expertise. Hopefully this is a referral from somebody trusted... But I suppose we all don't have that benefit sometimes.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Bean, don't believe everything you read. I posted quite a few articles in paper magazines before someone invented computers. (Paper is what we make trees out of) and everything I ever wrote was published with no one checking anything. I could have been a bowlegged, bald alien with a social disease from the far side of Mars, living in a pool of Penetrox under a rock and no one ever checked anything I ever wrote.

So don't buy the Penetrox... fine it sounds kind of risqué anyway and I wouldn't want the warden asking me why I bought it.

 

[Freenow54]

Run an extension cord from a GFCI on a known good circuit; if the gfci or breaker trips at well under 15A load, the equipment is suspicious!

You are not taking into account voltage drop caused by extension cord. Example on a 100 foot 14 gauge extension with 120 volt supply the voltage drop ends up with 97 available volts

 

[Freenow54]

Another consideration is the wiring copper or aluminium ?

 

[Freenow54]

Agree! You have an expensive repair coming @Miami Reef low voltage is never good! Maybe you’ll get lucky and it will be on the cities end.

It has been proven before " Power Supply Company ". In my case by a person at Carrier a well known HVAC Company

 

[Freenow54]

I am so happy that the education has begun defining GFi as opposed to ARC detection as well as induction, and other voltage leakage issues.

 

[bobmissy31]

That low 109v is usually a Utility problem, very seldom it's a homeowner problem. Have the electrician check the amperage on that breaker with everything running, a 15 amp breaker is only rated for 80% of its rating, so 12amps x 120v = 1440 watts. If your above that wattage, have him pull in #12awg romex and put in a 20amp breaker, that gives you 1920 watts and should get rid of your tripping issues. You can also have the elec. install a gfi 20amp breaker, then you have protection at the breaker for faults.

 

[Miami Reef]

The electrician came again today. I think I have some updates; I don’t even know where to begin.

The guy that came yesterday was okay... The supervisor that came today was so much better and more competent.

 

[BeanAnimal]

That low 109v is usually a Utility problem, very seldom it's a homeowner problem. Have the electrician check the amperage on that breaker with everything running, a 15 amp breaker is only rated for 80% of its rating, so 12amps x 120v = 1440 watts. If your above that wattage, have him pull in #12awg romex and put in a 20amp breaker, that gives you 1920 watts and should get rid of your tripping issues. You can also have the elec. install a gfi 20amp breaker, then you have protection at the breaker for faults.

Just to be clear here…
It’s not the breaker that’s “rated” for 80% it’s that continuous loads (defined as 3 hours or more) must not exceed 80% of the breaker’s rating per NEC.

A standard 15A breaker can handle short-term loads up to 15A, but for continuous use, it should be limited to 12A.

It is not a safety issue, but rather one of nuisance trips based on the time current curve of the breakers thermal response.

 

[Miami Reef]

It was kind of weird. One of the GFCI under the sump had 2 switches on the breaker. He tried closing each breaker to see which one controlled that outlet, but he figured out that 2 needed to be off simultaneously to deactivate it.


The outlet that controls the lights is connected to a standard outlet; 2 GFCI aren’t interconnected. He said there shouldn’t be any more problems. There isn’t a low voltage problem.

He separated the connected lines on the breaker and split them into different ones.

Now, he’s suggesting replacing some of the broken switches in the breaker panel. The lugs have rust. We don’t have surge protectors which he was surprised, but he said we only needed one since both panels could use it.

There seemed to be a leak somewhere, and we don’t know if that was a patched leak or if it’s still ongoing.

 

[Reefering1]

This was the outlet my lights were plugged into. Yikes. He changed it.





It was kind of weird. One of the GFCI under the sump had 2 switches on the breaker. He tried closing each breaker to see which one controlled that outlet, but he figured out that 2 needed to be off simultaneously to deactivate it.


The outlet that controls the lights is connected to a standard outlet; 2 GFCI aren’t interconnected. He said there shouldn’t be any more problems. There isn’t a low voltage problem.


Now, he’s suggesting replacing some of the broken switches in the breaker panel. Some are rusted. There seemed to be a leak somewhere, and we don’t know if that was a patched leak or if it’s still ongoing.

I have prices and quotes. If someone wants me to mention it in this thread let me know. I don’t know anything about electrical stuff, so i appreciate every single post in this thread.

Looks like you are lucky that outlet didn't get much worse, see the melted plastic from hot connection(voltage drop). Honestly, I would have thought you would see that when you plugged your lights in last week... sounds like he is being honest with you, to offer outlets and recommend breakers, and not just go for the entire panel. He needs to get to the bottom of the 2 breakers to turn off 1 outlet. That's a hazard, potentially allowing 40a on 20a circuit. This should not be overlooked, regardless weather it was causing the 109v symtom.
Let's see what they're quoting...

 

[Miami Reef]

I did see it, and I was curious about it, but I didn’t do anything about it. I didn’t think there would be an issue since everything was working fine with it for years. I didn’t think much of it. But yea, I did notice it.

 

[W31Olds]

I'd ask him to check all the breakers in your panel to make sure they trip and get the corrosion taken care for sure as it can cause overheating. Why you would need 2 separate GFCI circuits is puzzling. I assume they are both on 15A breakers. That's quite a bit of current for a single fish tank and you indicated your lights weren't even using them.