Breaking news on Apex

Meldium

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For all those vendors still carrying the classic at its $500 price range is going to be a headache now that the EL has arrived. Now that this new package is out and as Neptune continues to advertise it on future decisions and add-ons bring down the price point for options rather than the Apex2016. People will quickly realize the classic no longer will have value. Even if it works. It will still kinda upset the market on ppl buying the classic even today.
I can completely understand the action Neptune made due to technology and innovation plus software support. But if slowly the support for the Classic will not be available. It will upset the vendors still carrying it on their shelves and ppl buying the classic now not knowing that this package just released. I bet thousands of ppl didn't even know this was a upcoming package by Neptune.
I mean I was at RAP NY and never saw any promotion of this unit. Just recent rumors this week.
 

Terence

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For all those vendors still carrying the classic at its $500 price range is going to be a headache now that the EL has arrived. Now that this new package is out and as Neptune continues to advertise it on future decisions and add-ons bring down the price point for options rather than the Apex2016. People will quickly realize the classic no longer will have value. Even if it works. It will still kinda upset the market on ppl buying the classic even today.
I can completely understand the action Neptune made due to technology and innovation plus software support. But if slowly the support for the Classic will not be available. It will upset the vendors still carrying it on their shelves and ppl buying the classic now not knowing that this package just released. I bet thousands of ppl didn't even know this was a upcoming package by Neptune.
I mean I was at RAP NY and never saw any promotion of this unit. Just recent rumors this week.

No need to speculate. Dealers nationwide were super happy to see this model hit the market. I even had one of them on my livestream as I was at his store for the launch. Most haven’t even been carrying the classic for some time or maybe have one on the shelf.

Truth be told, no one knows how it will shake out in terms of which of these two New Apex Systems will get the most customers. To us it was simply the right decision to listen to our customers and offer a more affordable option that had many (but not all) of the top of the line apex features.
 

IntenseImage

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"Happened" lol I'm too far away for that excuse :)

Haha actually when I got home from work I saw one of green bta's migrated to the glass. Wanting to thin the heard we quickly pulled it out and ran it down to the store for credit and they had their shipment on the counter ready to go on the shelves ... So I helped them out a bit.

You'll have to let us know how it goes :)

Only took a few mins to get it setup and running ... Will mess with it more in depth this weekend
 

eb_reef

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I think adding novelty features, like Alexa support, is not something most users will use for this type of application.

Personally, I don't like those devices listening to what's going on at all times in my house. Yea, it only responds to key words, but it's always listening. I shut off the "OK Google" voice features on my phone also.

I personally find that most people who do not like these devices listening 24/7 also do not have a technical understanding of how these smart speakers work. There are a lot of people out there who fully understand what is happening on a technical level and are OK with it or just don't care at.

I am aware of the workarounds to get this functionally using IFTTT but decided that I probably wouldn't use it. Then I did my first maintenance after getting an Apex, couldn't unlock my phone because my hands were wet and thought "This is when it would be nice to be able to say 'hey google stop wave pumps.' "

Maybe to bring down hardware costs Neptune could implement a subscription service for Fusion and the app. Kind of how Microsoft and Sony do for their game consoles to operate online.

So reduce the price of hardware but charge $50/year for Fusion/app support. That covers your R&D for all of the software enhancements and can bring the price back down to earth without removing features that most people would use.

OMG why would you say this when you know Terence is right there listening to everything!!! I am sure that Neptune Systems has thought about jumping on that subscription model gravy train like everyone else is doing these days but as a consumer I hate all subscription services. If given the choice I would rather pay more upfront and become a lifetime member than pay monthly indefinitely
 

RamsReef

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I think adding novelty features, like Alexa support, is not something most users will use for this type of application.

Personally, I don't like those devices listening to what's going on at all times in my house. Yea, it only responds to key words, but it's always listening. I shut off the "OK Google" voice features on my phone also.

Removing the 0-10v ports was a bigger issue because that's what most 3rd party hardware operates on for any controllability... return pumps, lights, skimmers... correct?

Maybe to bring down hardware costs Neptune could implement a subscription service for Fusion and the app. Kind of how Microsoft and Sony do for their game consoles to operate online.

So reduce the price of hardware but charge $50/year for Fusion/app support. That covers your R&D for all of the software enhancements and can bring the price back down to earth without removing features that most people would use.

The thing is, if you want those ports but don’t want to spend more, you can get them with the VDM module and the EL for $600 and still save $200.

I can’t wait to hear the responses to your subscription idea. :)

What have you done Forsaken??????

I'll pull out faster than a wrasse without a lid if that happens. Back to VPN and Direct IP access.
 

RamsReef

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I personally find that most people who do not like these devices listening 24/7 also do not have a technical understanding of how these smart speakers work. There are a lot of people out there who fully understand what is happening on a technical level and are OK with it or just don't care at.

I am aware of the workarounds to get this functionally using IFTTT but decided that I probably wouldn't use it. Then I did my first maintenance after getting an Apex, couldn't unlock my phone because my hands were wet and thought "This is when it would be nice to be able to say 'hey google stop wave pumps.' "



OMG why would you say this when you know Terence is right there listening to everything!!! I am sure that Neptune Systems has thought about jumping on that subscription model gravy train like everyone else is doing these days but as a consumer I hate all subscription services. If given the choice I would rather pay more upfront and become a lifetime member than pay monthly indefinitely

Or you can use the display that "nobody" uses *Shrug*
 

Sleepydoc

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Kudos to @Terence for answering questions.

I think Terence brings up valid points. The marine aquarium market is much smaller than it would seem when you are on a forum like this. On top of that, the market for new controllers is even smaller; Well developed controllers like Apex and GHL have been around long enough that you are essentially marketing to people without a controller looking to expand their systems and to those looking to replace the controllers they have.

As for adding a subscription to Fusion, I can't see that doing well for Neptune either. Honestly, just look at the beating they took when they came out with the Apex 2016 and all the classic owners started complaining that their 'old' units were obsolete (even though there was all of ONE peripheral that wouldn't work with the classic.)

I have no idea what the production costs are, but the one way I could see a Jr replacement making sense is if it served as a gateway controller where people could buy a basic controller and then upgrade their head unit later on or something like that. Even that is a risky proposition, though. The current Apex Jr is a very nice option if you're looking for something basic to control a QT or something like that.
 

Sleepydoc

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Terrence, when and how will Apex address the issues with Top and salinity probe(a known complaint with owners) especially those realizing there is a $300 savings on a unit now without them?
My salinity probe was having issues when I first bought my system, but lately has been rock solid. You do have to be careful how you route the wire and position the probe, so they can be quite finicky. Of course, at this point I realized that I really don't need one and I never look at it anyway. Ditto with the ORP.
 

Forsaken77

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The subscription idea was to LOWER prices on the hardware, folks. To make it more accessible to newcomers, while still bringing an income to Neptune for their R&D. But that is the only reason I would suggest a subscription, if it lowered hardware costs. And it wasn't meant to have a sub to use the controller, just the online features.

Is $50 a year that much? Really? To save a few hundred bucks on hardware and accessories? Game consoles charge that just to play online. That's $4.16 per month.
 
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vetteguy53081

vetteguy53081

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The subscription idea was to LOWER prices on the hardware, folks. To make it more accessible to newcomers, while still bringing an income to Neptune for their R&D. But that is the only reason I would suggest a subscription, if it lowered hardware costs. And it wasn't meant to have a sub to use the controller, just the online features.

Is $50 a year that much? Really? To save a few hundred bucks on hardware and accessories? Game consoles charge that just to play online. That's $4.16 per month.

I agree- its a trade-off with benefits and savings
 

Forsaken77

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I personally find that most people who do not like these devices listening 24/7 also do not have a technical understanding of how these smart speakers work. There are a lot of people out there who fully understand what is happening on a technical level and are OK with it or just don't care at.

I am aware of the workarounds to get this functionally using IFTTT but decided that I probably wouldn't use it. Then I did my first maintenance after getting an Apex, couldn't unlock my phone because my hands were wet and thought "This is when it would be nice to be able to say 'hey google stop wave pumps.' "



OMG why would you say this when you know Terence is right there listening to everything!!! I am sure that Neptune Systems has thought about jumping on that subscription model gravy train like everyone else is doing these days but as a consumer I hate all subscription services. If given the choice I would rather pay more upfront and become a lifetime member than pay monthly indefinitely

I actually have a very good, well above average, understanding of how these devices work. Especially with an always-on internet connection. I work in the tech field. THAT is why I chose not to use them. And make no mistake, they ARE listening 24/7.

I find it's people that say "if you have nothing to hide, what's the big deal," are the same people who are letting corporations and government encroach further and further into our privacy and homes on a daily basis for the sake of convenience. Facebook anyone?

I'll leave it at that because it's off topic.
 

Z3speed4me

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Again... adding subscription fee to EXISTING customers that already bought the product at full cost years ago and ate the price for what it was and have never paid a yearly fee to drop their initial investment cost does not help a company in any way at all.

It only appeals to new customers which although hard to say, is likely not a giant percentage compared to the existing userbase. The fee does not help the company in the long run. People hate subscriptions regardless of how much, especially if one was never required and now randomly is; that makes people leave and offers space in the market for another competitor to offer a free service.

Pelaton just claimed to be worth 4 billion dollars today and will IPO next year; go offer a directly comparable item and service with zero monthly fee, and they are GONE by 2020.
 

Burrito

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if the hardware free with subscription yea, maybe that works out but i plan on a controller lasting more than a few years, so a price difference would have to be significant to have that model work, and like mentioned multiple times, what about the customers who paid full price already.... /not a fan of subscriptions models
 

Halal Hotdog

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The thing is, if you want those ports but don’t want to spend more, you can get them with the VDM module and the EL for $600 and still save $200.

I can’t wait to hear the responses to your subscription idea. :)

I like the idea of new hardware buyers to have the option to subsidize equipment costs by signing up for a monthly fee. That is what the cellular world did and now they cannot keep $1000+ iPhones in stock. Obviously imposing this fee on every Apex user will not be met well, but just limiting it to newcomers might be a great way to get an Apex in every home :). This may prove very important as more controllers keep hitting the market at lower and lower costs.

I also understand that new developments from Apex decrease the value of the Apex classic, but that is literally the nature of every electronic device on the market. Once again if you look at the cellular world, new models can drop the price of the previous model by 50%.

It seems like some of the reefing community is the only demographic that gets upset when things go down in price :).
 
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LobsterOfJustice

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Okay - can we get back on topic? Terence made it clear a few posts ago that Neptune is not considering charging for service at this time. This thread is supposed to be about the new Apex EL.
 

Z3speed4me

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On that note... I am buying one in the next 2-3 weeks to use with my new setup; going to order through my LFS.

BRS has sold a few, think inventory said 140 on release, now it says 113, so they are being purchased!
 

mckinleyw

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I think this EL option is a good deal. Being a classic owner, I have the pm2 for salinity and alot of other addon modules. this option takes my classic to the new level. This allows us the option to upgrade at a lower cost than full version. With this we can use the new and future addons. awesome stuff thank you neptune.
 

scuzy

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I think this EL option is a good deal. Being a classic owner, I have the pm2 for salinity and alot of other addon modules. this option takes my classic to the new level. This allows us the option to upgrade at a lower cost than full version. With this we can use the new and future addons. awesome stuff thank you neptune.

But for you all you need is but the full head unit @350
 
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