Brook or ich????

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

hey guys so I’ve been fighting a parasite which I thought was ich for the last week or two. I was treating with polyp medic lab, running a uv sterilizer, feeding nutrient rich foods and I thought everything seemed to be going ok. At first nothing got crazy better, but it didn’t get worse. So I figured I’d just keep doing what I’m doing since they’re all eating fine and everything and I figured that pulling them would lead to lots of stress and maybe worsen their condition. I’ve been watching intently for the little white spots to fall off… but they never have. The stock list was a purple tang, yellow tang, one spot foxface, 2 clowns, and 2 chromis. I just lost the purple tang the other day, I was scrolling on R2R and saw humble fishes post on brook. He had a pic of a purple tang that looked exactly how mine did when it passed. So now I’m wondering did I misdiagnose this????? I have a qt ready to go but my thinking was since I haven’t seen them get “worse” in terms of whitespots I figured it might be easier to do ich management then eradication. Now knowing it might not be ich what do I do? The clowns look terrible now which seemingly happened overnight because they did not look like this yesterday. Someone please help me figure out what’s going on with these fish. I care about them a lot and want to do whatever I can to possibly save them. Water parameters are ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 12 phos 0.02

Will have pictures attached and a video of R2R let’s me post it!

(Current stock: foxface, clowns, chromis, yellow tang)

Sharkbait19 · Nov 12, 2023

Could you attach the video as a YouTube link - it makes it easier for us to see.
I’d count on brook killing fast, and any reef safe treatment isn’t going to do anything for ich (and definitely not brook or velvet).
How are the fish acting? If a fish died, it’s already post-management time and all you can do is quarantine and treat properly.

vetteguy53081 · Nov 12, 2023

JPR1212 said:
hey guys so I’ve been fighting a parasite which I thought was ich for the last week or two. I was treating with polyp medic lab, running a uv sterilizer, feeding nutrient rich foods and I thought everything seemed to be going ok. At first nothing got crazy better, but it didn’t get worse. So I figured I’d just keep doing what I’m doing since they’re all eating fine and everything and I figured that pulling them would lead to lots of stress and maybe worsen their condition. I’ve been watching intently for the little white spots to fall off… but they never have. The stock list was a purple tang, yellow tang, one spot foxface, 2 clowns, and 2 chromis. I just lost the purple tang the other day, I was scrolling on R2R and saw humble fishes post on brook. He had a pic of a purple tang that looked exactly how mine did when it passed. So now I’m wondering did I misdiagnose this????? I have a qt ready to go but my thinking was since I haven’t seen them get “worse” in terms of whitespots I figured it might be easier to do ich management then eradication. Now knowing it might not be ich what do I do? The clowns look terrible now which seemingly happened overnight because they did not look like this yesterday. Someone please help me figure out what’s going on with these fish. I care about them a lot and want to do whatever I can to possibly save them. Water parameters are ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 12 phos 0.02

Will have pictures attached and a video of R2R let’s me post it!

(Current stock: foxface, clowns, chromis, yellow tang)

Lighting is dark and fish hard to see in video. It has something but need white light intensity and side view to confirm what it is. The turbulence seems to be a little much for the fish based on video

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Sharkbait19 said:
Could you attach the video as a YouTube link - it makes it easier for us to see.
I’d count on brook killing fast, and any reef safe treatment isn’t going to do anything for ich (and definitely not brook or velvet).
How are the fish acting? If a fish died, it’s already post-management time and all you can do is quarantine and treat properly.

Hopefully this works.

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Lighting is dark and fish hard to see in video. It has something but need white light intensity and side view to confirm what it is. The turbulence seems to be a little much for the fish based on video

Check out the link I just posted hopefully the vid helps!

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Sharkbait19 said:
Could you attach the video as a YouTube link - it makes it easier for us to see.
I’d count on brook killing fast, and any reef safe treatment isn’t going to do anything for ich (and definitely not brook or velvet).
How are the fish acting? If a fish died, it’s already post-management time and all you can do is quarantine and treat properly.

Also the fish are starting to breath my rapidly which they weren’t doing before (was monitoring it) the fox face in the vid is skiddish but I’m watching him and the tang tear up an algae strip as we speak. So ok I guess, not sure I really don’t like the breathing.

vetteguy53081 · Nov 12, 2023

JPR1212 said:
Hopefully this works.

Ths clown seems to have brook with secondary bacterial lesions. These lesions as they progress are often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

vetteguy53081 said:
Ths clown seems to have brook with secondary bacterial lesions. These lesions as they progress are often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.
With the advanced stage of this- I recommend immediate quarantine of all inhabitants and leaving display without fish for 4-6 weeks.

Definitely am thinking the qt option too. Could it be a mix of ich and brook? Not sure if your able to see the white spots on the fox face and tang as well

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Also definitely not velvet because that would've wiped them all out a while ago correct?

Sharkbait19 · Nov 12, 2023

With velvet, all you tend to see is fast breathing, swimming into flow, and death. The white coating often doesn’t show.
The fish could have both, but brook is more important to treat first and ich can be done afterwards.

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Sharkbait19 said:
With velvet, all you tend to see is fast breathing, swimming into flow, and death. The white coating often doesn’t show.
The fish could have both, but brook is more important to treat first and ich can be done afterwards.

Sounds good plan on getting them in there today setting up a qt as we speak! Any good threads on how to setup a qt? This is my first one all I got is a heater, spare mp10 small hang on back filter that I’m gonna stuff with floss. I need to make a run the get pvc but other then that anything else?

Sharkbait19 · Nov 12, 2023

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

The setup itself is pretty simple - just a tank large enough for the fish with a heater, sponge filter, and a hob, adding pvc for hiding spots.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 12, 2023

JPR1212 said:
Definitely am thinking the qt option too. Could it be a mix of ich and brook? Not sure if your able to see the white spots on the fox face and tang as well

I couldn’t see the spots on the tang and foxface, but it is possible to have mixed infections like that.

Jay

MnFish1 · Nov 12, 2023

JPR1212 said:
Also the fish are starting to breath my rapidly which they weren’t doing before (was monitoring it) the fox face in the vid is skiddish but I’m watching him and the tang tear up an algae strip as we speak. So ok I guess, not sure I really don’t like the breathing.

I only see issues with the clowns - however it's difficult to see. There is a thread at the top of the fish disease diagnosis and treatment forum (a sticky) - which will give you a good place to start. As to what drug to use for QT - i.e. the protocol with copper and prazipro - or the formalin based treatment others have already given their recommendations. Sorry not to be able to help more. Best wishes with the fish

PS - If this turns out to be a combination of Ich and brooklynella (I believe you asked the question) - they can occur together - you will need to treat all of your fish using the quarantine protocol (with copper and prazipro) - and leave your display tank fallow for 45-76 days

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
I couldn’t see the spots on the tang and foxface, but it is possible to have mixed infections like that.

Jay

Hey Jay here’s some better pics from this morning and during the day. It’s tough to tell I have copper power, and rally pro on hand. The fish are in qt right now so hoping they’ll settle in and I can begin treatment tomorrow. I did do a fe dip before putting them in qt. Some small flakes seemed to fall off. Look like little salt grains I don’t know if those are flukes will definitely post a pic!

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Here’s a vid of the water after the dip

MnFish1 said:
I only see issues with the clowns - however it's difficult to see. There is a thread at the top of the fish disease diagnosis and treatment forum (a sticky) - which will give you a good place to start. As to what drug to use for QT - i.e. the protocol with copper and prazipro - or the formalin based treatment others have already given their recommendations. Sorry not to be able to help more. Best wishes with the fish

PS - If this turns out to be a combination of Ich and brooklynella (I believe you asked the question) - they can occur together - you will need to treat all of your fish using the quarantine protocol (with copper and prazipro) - and leave your display tank fallow for 45-76 days

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Here’s the link to vid on YouTube

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

@Jay Hemdal when you get the chance please and thank you^

JPR1212 · Nov 12, 2023

Also was curious for future reference if I could do like an hour bath in rally pro and then a different hour bath in like prazi? Then into like qt just to jumpstart the disease fighting process of things like brook and flukes before attacking ich with copper in a qt?

MnFish1 · Nov 12, 2023

JPR1212 said:
Also was curious for future reference if I could do like an hour bath in rally pro and then a different hour bath in like prazi? Then into like qt just to jumpstart the disease fighting process of things like brook and flukes before attacking ich with copper in a qt?

While this might 'help', I do not think that those would be part of a routine protocol - except that there are some instructions for baths with ruby rally Pro - I'm sure @Jay Hemdal will weigh in