Brook or Velvet?

[rebekwl]

I think my regal tang has either brooklynella or velvet. The LFS we got her from medicates all fish for 30 days before releasing for sale. She was in our tank for about 3 weeks before showing symptoms. Prior to her arrival, there haven't been any new additions to that tank for months. Is it possible either of these could have already been in the tank with the other fish as carriers showing no symptoms? (yellow tang, 2 ocellaris clowns & YWG). Or is it more likely that the LFS isn't properly medicating their fish and using lower than therapeutic levels necessary to eradicate the nasties??

It was incredibly difficult for me to get these crappy pictures. I hope they are enough to pinpoint the problem. Other than the visible symptoms, the tang is acting normally - eating fine, not swimming into powerheads, etc. She is looking incredibly skinny all of the sudden too, despite her healthy appetite.

My plan is to remove her from the system and start with a fresh water dip followed by acriflavine bath and then treat with copper safe. This should eradicate both brook & velvet correct?

The issue is that the acriflavine medication is on it's way in the mail. Will FWD suffice to hold us over until tomorrow or Monday, or should I begin copper treatment immediately? Could someone please offer some insight? @Humblefish @melypr1985

Here are some (not so good) pictures:

Thank you!! :)

 

[Deinonych]

It's hard to tell 100% from the photos, but it looks more like crypto (ich) to me than brook or velvet. If it is crypto, a fresh water dip won't do anything since the trophonts (feeding stage) are protected by the fish's epithelium. Copper or CP administered in a sterile QT would be the appropriate course of action (CP would be my preference). You'll need to treat all fish and leave the DT fallow for 72+ days if you want to rid yourself of the parasite.

 

[rebekwl]

It's hard to tell 100% from the photos, but it looks more like crypto (ich) to me than brook or velvet. If it is crypto, a fresh water dip won't do anything since the trophonts (feeding stage) are protected by the fish's epithelium. Copper or CP administered in a sterile QT would be the appropriate course of action (CP would be my preference). You'll need to treat all fish and leave the DT fallow for 72+ days if you want to rid yourself of the parasite.

Thank you! I guess I've never seen ich this bad, usually just a few salt grains. This poor guy is covered. If it is ich, the treatment will certainly be easier. I do have copper safe on hand (no CP and it's hard to acquire from what I understand).

The tank the fish are in right now is temporary and we are definitely medicating all fish and putting the tank through a fallow period before moving anything over to the new tank.

The plan is to set up the 2 10 gallon QT tanks we have and transfer the fish over to a 29 gallon tank as they complete medication while the fallow period continues for the 72 days. If the new tank isn't set up by then, we may or may not put them back into the old tank. We might just break this one down and cook the rock in the meantime.

 

[BoneXriffic]

If diagnosed ich, @melypr1985 is fond of the TTM as ot cures ich without harsh chemicals... seems like the best way for your fish.

I agree it looms lie ich

 

[rebekwl]

If diagnosed ich, @melypr1985 is fond of the TTM as ot cures ich without harsh chemicals... seems like the best way for your fish.

I agree it looms lie ich

Thank you! I do have 2 small 10 gallon tanks so I could easily use TTM if it is in fact ich. Can TTM be used on multiple fish at one time? I'm not sure how many fish I feel comfortable putting in a 10 gallon at one time, but I'd like to do more than 1 at a time if possible...

 

[Humblefish]

It's hard to tell 100% from the photos, but it looks more like crypto (ich) to me than brook or velvet.

^^I agree. Below is a photo of a Hippo Tang with ich for comparison purposes.

However, given the chance this could be velvet I would use Coppersafe over TTM in this situation just to be on the safe side (copper treats both ich & velvet). I also would begin treatment ASAP due to the severity of this fish's condition. All fish he shares water with need to be treated as well.

 

[rebekwl]

^^I agree. Below is a photo of a Hippo Tang with ich for comparison purposes.

However, given the chance this could be velvet I would use Coppersafe over TTM in this situation just to be on the safe side (copper treats both ich & velvet). I also would begin treatment ASAP due to the severity of this fish's condition. All fish he shares water with need to be treated as well.

Ok, thank you! I'm just waiting for the new water to come to temp and into hosp tanks they will go!

 

[rebekwl]

I do have a question - for the hospital tanks, do I have to add filter media to house the bacteria, or can I add it directly to the water?

 

[Humblefish]

I do have a question - for the hospital tanks, do I have to add filter media to house the bacteria, or can I add it directly to the water?

You will need a filter which utilizes bio-media capable of "housing" nitrifying bacteria. For example, an Aquaclear HOB power filter (look here) uses a sponge (photos below), and this sponge will serve as your bio-media because bacteria can colonize it. However, in your situation I recommend putting the sponge in a bucket using freshly mixed (new) SW. Pour a "bacteria in a bottle" product in (exs. Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria) and let the bacteria "seed" for a few days before adding to the QT. This time away from copper will give the nitrifying bacteria time to "settle in" and embed itself into the sponge. Adding an air stone to the bucket for some gentle circulation (and O2) is a good idea as well.

FWIW; There are other filters you can use. Marineland makes an inexpensive Bio-wheel powerfilter some use for QT: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12320

The bio-wheel itself is the bio-media. I personally prefer the Aquaclear, but at the risk of sounding like a Hagen salesperson wanted to provide you with another option. ;)

 

[rebekwl]

You will need a filter which utilizes bio-media capable of "housing" nitrifying bacteria. For example, an Aquaclear HOB power filter (look here) uses a sponge (photos below), and this sponge will serve as your bio-media because bacteria can colonize it. However, in your situation I recommend putting the sponge in a bucket using freshly mixed (new) SW. Pour a "bacteria in a bottle" product in (exs. Bio-Spira, Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria) and let the bacteria "seed" for a few days before adding to the QT. This time away from copper will give the nitrifying bacteria time to "settle in" and embed itself into the sponge. Adding an air stone to the bucket for some gentle circulation (and O2) is a good idea as well.

FWIW; There are other filters you can use. Marineland makes an inexpensive Bio-wheel powerfilter some use for QT: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12320

The bio-wheel itself is the bio-media. I personally prefer the Aquaclear, but at the risk of sounding like a Hagen salesperson wanted to provide you with another option. ;)

LOL!! :) I do have 1 filter on stand-by and another coming through amazon which should be here soon. I'll go ahead and run to petco for the sponges so I can seed them in the meantime. Should I just go ahead and use old tank water to set up the tanks then, since I'll be adding copper anyways? That way the water I'm adding the fish to is already cycled... ???

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree looks like bad ich although could also be velvet. My bet is on ich. Humble has given you the best advice.

 

[Humblefish]

Should I just go ahead and use old tank water to set up the tanks then, since I'll be adding copper anyways? That way the water I'm adding the fish to is already cycled... ???

It's best to use freshly mixed SW to avoid transferring over parasite free swimmers, but if that means having to delay treatment go ahead and use DT water instead.

 

[rebekwl]

Ok great, thank you so much for your help! I started them in QT last night with DT water and a small amount of copper. I'm going to do a 50% water change when I add the sponges. I gracefully dropped the filter I have on hand and cracked it, so I have another on order to arrive tomorrow. In the meantime should I place the filter media in the tank, or just wait until I have the filter to house it?

 

[Humblefish]

In the meantime should I place the filter media in the tank, or just wait until I have the filter to house it?

You need a filter to push water through it, or sucked into it if using an air driven sponge filter.

 

[rebekwl]

ok, thank you!

 

[rebekwl]

Ok so today is day 12 of copper treatment. I noticed a couple of days ago that the yellow tang was having an adverse reaction, I'm assuming to the copper? The ammonia never went above 0.05 and an immediate water change was done at the first sign. He developed red abrasions on his face, his eye was cloudy and he was disoriented. I immediately did a 50% water change and added some API fungus cure (3 mg of Victoria Green B and 30 mg of Acriflavine) to the water. It says it's for fungal and secondary bacterial infections. He is still eating, mainly nori because I think he's having trouble seeing the mysis, but his eye looks much worse this morning (almost like popeye). Can you please suggest what to treat with at this point? Should I remove the fungal cure and treat with an antibiotic instead?

 

[rebekwl]

Also, just realized the fungal cure is marketed for freshwater fish. Is using it for saltwater fish in a hospital tank is a bad idea?

 

[Humblefish]

It sounds like he is developing a secondary bacterial infection, very common in fish with a preexisting parasitic infestation.

I would dose an antibiotic, such as Kanaplex or Furan-2.

 

[rebekwl]

I'll get right on it, thank you! Will it be ok to leave the 2 clownfish in the tank during treatment, or should I move them?

 

[Humblefish]

I'll get right on it, thank you! Will it be ok to leave the 2 clownfish in the tank during treatment, or should I move them?

I would leave them in, treat all the fish. Some bacterial diseases are waterborne transmissible.