BRS dosing info problem

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I believe there is a problem with your BRS hybrid balling dosing into.

The two part is designed for 1:1 dosing, and yet you recommend;

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-pharma-balling-method-bulk-total-package-bulk-reef-supply.html
Tropic Marin Part C Dosing Amount - The Dosing of the Balling Part C solution is based on your aquarium’s alkalinity dosage. The Part C solution should be dosed at double the amount of the Soda Ash solution used. For example, if you are dosing 21.5mL of Soda Ash solution, you'll dose 43mL of Part C solution.

If you notice that your alkalinity demand is constantly more than your calcium demand, then we recommend using the calcium, instead of the alkalinity, as the indicator for the Part C dosage. In that case, the volume would be matched and not doubled.

Since it is a 1:1 product, the part C dosing is doubled whether you base it off the alk or the calcium part.

 

[rtparty]

Very few systems actually utilize them in a perfect 1:1 ratio. Even mixing the solutions at a slightly different potency will mess with this ratio

 

[BeanAnimal]

.
double post sorry

 

[BeanAnimal]

Very few systems actually utilize them in a perfect 1:1 ratio. Even mixing the solutions at a slightly different potency will mess with this ratio

That is a given, but the baseline instruction for dosing should be balanced. (whatever the volumetric ratio for the product at hand is) and then dosing adjustments (based on testing the particular system) made form there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Very few systems actually utilize them in a perfect 1:1 ratio. Even mixing the solutions at a slightly different potency will mess with this ratio

As noted, that’s not the point. The amount of part C based on alk should be doubled too, if it is the comparator chosen.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There’s a whole other major problem that we might as well address here too, which is that one should NOT use both the mag part 3 and the balling part C, since the mag part 3 is largely (but not completely) duplicated by the magnesium and sulfate in Balling part C.

Thus, when using Balling Part C, the mag part (part 3) is about 3x too strong and is wrong in composition.

 

[rtparty]

As noted, that’s not the point. The amount of part C based on alk should be doubled too, if it is the comparator chosen.

I misread the instructions while on lunch

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I believe there is a problem with your BRS hybrid balling dosing into.

The two part is designed for 1:1 dosing, and yet you recommend;

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-pharma-balling-method-bulk-total-package-bulk-reef-supply.html
Tropic Marin Part C Dosing Amount - The Dosing of the Balling Part C solution is based on your aquarium’s alkalinity dosage. The Part C solution should be dosed at double the amount of the Soda Ash solution used. For example, if you are dosing 21.5mL of Soda Ash solution, you'll dose 43mL of Part C solution.

If you notice that your alkalinity demand is constantly more than your calcium demand, then we recommend using the calcium, instead of the alkalinity, as the indicator for the Part C dosage. In that case, the volume would be matched and not doubled.

Since it is a 1:1 product, the part C dosing is doubled whether you base it off the alk or the calcium part.

I believe that at one point the instructions were to double the amount of scoops of TMC for a 1 gallon mix. Some of us noted some issues with this (someone had said precipitation). Then they changed it back to the original amount of scoops of TMC for a 1 gallon mix but said to dose twice as much TMC as part a/b. I know we questioned what exactly TMC was as it wasn’t very clear “Everything in seawater except the salt”. There were also a lot of questions about how much magnesium was In TMC. Again, a lot of speculation as it wasn’t very clear. I thought this was all sort of resolved a few years back. Did they change the instructions again? I stopped over a year ago when I switched to a calcium reactor and limewater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Balling Part C, as made in original TM directions, when now used with my two part, should be dosed at twice the rate for normal TM Balling, since my two part #1 (the soda ash recipe) is twice as potent as the original TM Balling Parts A and B.

That issue aside, the directions that claim a different amount to add if you base it off the alk compared to if you base it off the calcium is the problem. Both parts of my recipe are twice as potent as the original TM Balling recipe, and thus deliver twice as much sodium chloride and hence need twice as much Part C.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Feels like a classic case of copying somebody else’s work but not knowing enough to adapt it to the materials at hand.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Balling Part C, as made in original TM directions, when now used with my two part, should be dosed at twice the rate for normal TM Balling, since my two part #1 (the soda ash recipe) is twice as potent as the original TM Balling Parts A and B.

That issue aside, the directions that claim a different amount to add if you base it off the alk compared to if you base it off the calcium is the problem. Both parts of my recipe are twice as potent as the original TM Balling recipe, and thus deliver twice as much sodium chloride and hence need twice as much Part C.

Gotcha, I don’t ever remember seeing that note (to dose at 1:1:1 if calculating off calcium) in the past. I wonder when they added that line? It seems to be fairly dynamic, 4 scoops per gallon at 1:1:1, then 7.5 scoops per gallon at 1:1:1, then 4 scoops per gallon at 1:1:2, and now 1:1:2 if calculating off alk but 1:1:1 off calcium. What bothered me most back when was that they didn’t alert you to the changes as they occurred.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Feels like a classic case of copying somebody else’s work but knowing enough to adapt it to the materials at hand.

Not…not knowing enough! Ha

 

[KC2020]

I don’t ever remember seeing that note (to dose at 1:1:1 if calculating off calcium) in the past. I wonder when they added that line?

OK now you have me confused. I just started using TM 3 part.

Copied below is what's currently in the instructions for use. What I don't understand is your statement " to dose at 1:1:1 if calculating off calcium"

I don't see that note now.

TM site says: Separately add equal amounts of all three solutions successively to the tank water daily. The addition of 1 fl.oz./30 ml of each solution will raise the calcium level of 10 US-gal./35 l by approx. 15 ppm and the alkalinity by 2.2 °dH.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

OK now you have me confused. I just started using TM 3 part.

Copied below is what's currently in the instructions for use. What I don't understand is your statement " to dose at 1:1:1 if calculating off calcium"

I don't see that note now.

TM site says: Separately add equal amounts of all three solutions successively to the tank water daily. The addition of 1 fl.oz./30 ml of each solution will raise the calcium level of 10 US-gal./35 l by approx. 15 ppm and the alkalinity by 2.2 °dH.

Based off of Randy’s original post quotes. Not TM related, but only in regards to the brs hybrid with TMC

 

[KC2020]

Based off of Randy’s original post quotes. Not TM related, but only in regards to the brs hybrid with TMC

Oops. Thanks :upside-down-face:

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Oops. Thanks :upside-down-face:

No worries. I know the feeling…better safe as they say

 

[Bulk Reef Supply Verified Sponsor]

Thank you for raising this question. The Part C from Tropic Marin is based on a Sodium Bicarbonate alkalinity supplement. Soda Ash is dosed at half the amount of sodium bicarbonate for the same effect. Due to this, you'll need to double the amount of Part C while using soda ash

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for raising this question. The Part C from Tropic Marin is based on a Sodium Bicarbonate alkalinity supplement. Soda Ash is dosed at half the amount of sodium bicarbonate for the same effect. Due to this, you'll need to double the amount of Part C while using soda ash

Sadly, you misunderstood both critical errors that you are making.

The first problem is not with the dosing based on the alk part. Yes, that doubling is correct.
The problem is with the calcium part of the advice.

"If you notice that your alkalinity demand is constantly more than your calcium demand, then we recommend using the calcium, instead of the alkalinity, as the indicator for the Part C dosage. In that case, the volume would be matched and not doubled."

I designed the two part you now sell, and it is clearly designed for 1:1 dosing between the alk and calcium parts. That is also easily verified by your own info

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/content/post/brs-bulk-pharma-tropic-marin-hybrid-balling-method
Using your own calculator,

200 mL of the liquid soda ash solution added to 100 gallons boosts alk by 2.8 dKH
205 mL of the calcium solution added to 100 gallons boosts calcium by 20 ppm.

That is perfectly balanced and thus is designed for 1:1 dosing.

Consequently, basing the dosing on EITHER alk or calcium should be doubled because BOTH solutions are twice as potent as the original Balling recipes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

You are also ignoring the second serious issue that I noted:

There’s a whole other major problem that we might as well address here too, which is that one should NOT use both the mag part 3 and the balling part C, since the mag part 3 is largely (but not completely) duplicated by the magnesium and sulfate in Balling part C.

Thus, when using Balling Part C, the mag part (part 3) is about 3x too strong and is wrong in composition.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You are also ignoring the second serious issue that I noted:

There’s a whole other major problem that we might as well address here too, which is that one should NOT use both the mag part 3 and the balling part C, since the mag part 3 is largely (but not completely) duplicated by the magnesium and sulfate in Balling part C.

Thus, when using Balling Part C, the mag part (part 3) is about 3x too strong and is wrong in composition.

Hmmm…. Maybe you’re attempting to reason with an ai bot. Ha (as you had just mentioned this concept in another thread)