Bumps on Powder Blue Tang (not Ich)

[NeuroticAquatics]

Okay...so if I decide to go with treatment, what is the best option? A few days later and it is still alive, still looks about the same, although it seemed to look a little better for a couple days. My thoughts...
(1) Do copper again but get a Hannah checker.
(2) Go with CP, but there are still probably low levels of copper from before.

Ideas? Feedback?

 

[MnFish1]

It has never had Ich since I’ve had it. I got it from a wholesale place in LA, had it untreated in QT for a couple weeks...no signs of anything. Treated with copper (I’ve been treating everything)...no signs of anything. Watched it for a couple weeks after...nothing. Put it into my DT, had about an hour of stress with the Carribean Tang on Sunday, but still looked good other than the two fin nips. Looked okay Mon and Tues then these bumps started Wed.

I read somewhere - on this or another thread -that tangs can get bumps from copper itself....

 

[Land Shark]

I can help you get through this using the CP method if you like. The existing copper shouldn’t be a major issue to deal with.

The first thing you need is the med. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chloroquin...-velvet-brook-AQUARIUM-USE-ONLY-/231636780028

It will take a few days to arrive. When it does, review the instructions but before starting the treatment, let’s discuss next steps in detail.

Get enough to treat your 240g. Since you already have copper in your DT, treating your entire DT with CP is a good route to go to insure you eradicate 100% of the ich from the entire tank and all fish. This route will also be easier on your fish and you as you won’t need to move your fish into small hospital treatment tanks.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I have not read up on CP for a while, but I recall everyone warning the CP from eBay is not a wise choice. I just looked quickly and saw that diamondback drugs closed. I have a friend that’s a Vet so I can probably get a prescription. Is there a new trusted place or is this eBay seller to be trusted?

 

[Land Shark]

If you can get a prescription then by all means, I’d go that route. That said, I have seen similar comments and I take them with a grain of salt. I can tell you that I have spoken to this reseller on the phone, have used his product multiple times on retail tanks (aquarium store) and have resolved ich issues safely using his product every time. He is reselling small packages of prescription product, that is all. Either source is fine.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

I’m going to try this. My friend is on vacation now, so this will be faster.

I ordered 25g...they say 10g treats 250gallons but my math, at 60mg/gal comes out to 14.4g

 

[Land Shark]

That’s great. The reseller also has a 97% positive feedback score so it’s not just me saying something positive.

The correct dose is 10g per 250 gal and your shipment will include detailed instructions. I will help with dosing details as well.

If I understand correctly, you are running fish only in your DT. You have treated recently with a full dose of copper so worms have already died off and any ammonia spike has settled. Is that where you are at now?

What is your ammonia, po4 and nitrate at?

Are you running your skimmer for aeration?

Do you have sand in your dt? How many inches deep is the sand?

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Ammonia and Nitrates are zero. I do not test for phosphates as I’ve never felt they matter much in a FOWLR. I have skimmers going (2 of them). I have about 1.5-2” of sand and some live rock (although most was removed when I did copper...that is still in a Brute can for fallow period). I think between the rock/sand/overflow and my sump (holds about 50gallons), I am right around 240-250 gallons.

 

[venomcc]

Does not look like ich to me. Nothing white about it. flukes perhaps?

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Does not look like ich to me. Nothing white about it. flukes perhaps?

It did not look like it to me at first either but he has white spots now and the big bumps are mostly gone. It’s tough to get anything other than a blurry pic of his, as he does not like the iPhone pointed at him.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Other fish (that are all still spotless) are:
- Flame Hawk
- Juvenile Emperator Angel
- Majestic Angel
- Potters Angel
- Lamark Angel
- Majestic Foxface
- Spanish Hogfish
- Zoster Butterfly
- Long Jaw Wrasse

 

[Land Shark]

How are things looking today? Did you receive your CP yet?

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

How are things looking today? Did you receive your CP yet?

I think it will arrive today.

The PBT is eating and acting normal. Has spots though. All other fish looked clean/clear as of this morning.

 

[Land Shark]

That's good to hear. Since you have copper in your DT already, you want to take it slow as that's a variable. When you are ready to start your CP treatment, use the prescribed CP dose as per the instructions that are included with your packets but spread it out over a week so 1/4 dose, then wait 2 days, then another 1/4 dose and so on. No UV, no carbon, etc. Your tang will lose signs of ich quickly but keep with the treatment for 90 days due to the ich lifecycle. With a fish only tank, this isn't going to be a problem for you.

Keep an eye on your long jaw wrasse. You may have to remove him if he stops eating over several days. I don't know if that is a delicate wrasse but I keep divided leopard wrasses, which are delicate, and they stopped eating live food after a week when in a CP treatment tank. I just give them a shorter prophylactic treatment as they were introduced later and aren't known to be a high ich risk like a powder blue. Feed all your fish well as you have been doing.

Use the algae growth (or lack thereof) on your glass as an indicator of the strength of CP in your tank. When you initially apply the recommended dose, you will notice how clean and algae free your glass becomes almost overnight. You have sand, live rock and bacteria so over the course of several weeks, the CP meds will break down and your algae will start growing on your glass again. By this time your tang will be healed up and will look healthy. Add an additional 1/4 dose of CP when you see algae returning on your glass and verify that the algae disappears again. Keep just enough CP going so that your glass stays algae free for the entire 90 days. If you need to dose every couple of weeks at 1/4 dose, that is fine. Just use the algae as an indicator. There is no harm in continuing the dose after 90 days if you like the side benefit of the clean glass but by that time, the ich life cycle will have gone full cycle and you will be in the clear.

Without heavy water changes, it will a few months for the med to break down to 0. If you want to introduce corals after 90 days this isn't going to be possible right off the bat. Plan to start 25% water changes every few days until you have replaced 100-200% of your water. Use carbon, and most important, give the bacteria and your skimmer time to do their work. To verify, place an inexpensive test coral in the tank and watch to see if it survives. Four months is realistic without the water changes but you can cut down the time with the water changes I mentioned. Trace amounts of CP will leach from your rock and sand for a bit but will be consumed by bacteria just as fast.

With this treatment, you will rid your display tank of Cryptocaryon (Ich). As a side benefit, this treatment is also proven effective against Amyloodinium (velvet).

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Okay, it arrived. So I want to do about 1.5 teaspoons every other day (4doses total)?

 

[Land Shark]

Since your total system is 240ish gallons, then you want to use four individual doses of 3/4 tsp once every 2 days. This would be a total dose of 3 tsp over the course of 8 days. This dose is per the typical recommended dose to treat ich. One good thing to know is that this is actually half the recommended dose that you would be treating if you suspected you had an outbreak of brooklinella (which is aggressive and kills fish quickly). You just want to stick with the more conservative dose to treat ich.

Per the instructions: Typical dosage for quarantine is 40mg/Gallon (app. 1/8th tsp./10gallon)

Which works out to:
1/8 tsp/10gal
2/8 tsp/20gal
3/8 tsp/30gal
1/2 tsp/40gal
5/8 tsp/50gal
3/4 tsp/60gal*

As mentioned before, bacteria that can develop in your existing saltwater system that can break down the Chloroquine Phosphate and reduce concentration below therapeutic levels. Chloroquine Phosphate is toxic to all algae, corals, worms and most inverts. When used in a fish only system such as yours, the biological filter will continue to function but ammonia levels must be monitored as dead/dying worms/inverts and algae in the tank can easily overwhelm the biological filter. Since you are already running copper in your DT, your tank has already adjusted to ammonia spike issues. If you have doubts, test for ammonia.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Okay. I was going with the “for treatment of...”, not “for general quarantine...” doses on the instructions.

Last, quick questions...keep Chaeto in the sump or pull it? Run skimmers or take the collection cups off and just run for aeration?

 

[Land Shark]

I would pull the cheato out after a day or two of treatment. It may wilt a bit. Keep it in a qt tank with no fish but add fish food for a nitrate and phosphate source. Then use good flow and light. Reintroduce it in no less than 90 days to make sure it is ich free. No guarantees here but its worth a try to insure you have ich free cheato later on. That is what I would do. If it dies, then insure you have a good ich free source for more down the road.

Run the skimmer with the collection cup off for 14 days or so to keep as much of the med in your DT as possible. The aeration is good. Cut back on feeding if nitrates go above 30.

Post pics of your progress each day if you don't mind. The progress pics may help someone else in the future.

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Just as an update...two doses in and not much change yet. I’m not really expecting much until after the 3-4th but the Powder Blue is still eating and the others all look clean so far. I will see if I can get pics over the weekend, but this fish does not stop moving and I have not been able to get a really clear shot yet.

 

[Land Shark]

The fact that he's still eating and swimming around is a very good sign so that's good. Does your PB rub against the rock and sand in an effort to rid itself of the parasite?