Bye-bye LEDs hello mh!!!!!!!

[BayCorals]

No doubt they work... I guess you have to experience it to explain it... My corals under LEDs look awesome very healthy and grow great no problems... Take a coral out of LEDs and stick it under a mh it's brown instantly.... Yes I agree corals look different under different lighting etc... LEDs give false colors I should say...

Troy, I have to agree with you that LED gives a false color on the corals. I've bought some chalices that looked awesome under LED's and when I put them under my Radiums, they looked totally different. I felt like I've been taken for a ride and will never buy any corals under LED's again. I mean I've seen a Tyree red watermelon under LED's that have yellow eyes and yellow rim, when it's suppose to be green. Talk about false colors right?

 

[Redstag]

Did you guys try to remove the corals from the Hybrid T5 & LED to place under Metal Halide or T5? I will ask my friend couple frags from his Hybrid T5 & LED tank to place my under ATI T5 tank to see what happen. I will post the result.

 

[ReefMP]

Maybe it's just my system but about a year and a half ago when I was looking into LEDs as my primary light source, I decided to experiment with on a smaller scale before spending tons of $$ on it.

In addition to my main display tank, I setup 2 smaller frag tanks and hooked them to my main system so the parms were the same. On one of the small tanks I had a BoostLED PAR30 bulb (4xb, 1xw), on the other I had a DIY CREE LED setup....I also added a BoostLED PAR30 (3xb, 2xw) to my fuge.

I then cut some frags from my main display, all approximately the same size and the same corals. I placed frags of each type of corals in all the smaller tanks and the DT (under T5s). Initially the colors were much more intense under all the LEDs.

After 1 year, from my little experiment I found that:

1) the SPS corals weren't as colorful as they initially were under LED, most of them browned out.
2) The SPS growth results of the frags that were placed under T5s was almost double that of the ones under the LEDs.
3) The results of LPS and softies frags was pretty much the same under all the lighting.
4) Zoas were brighter and grew faster under the LEDs.

 

[KLR]

Yea,I was running an LED pendant and when I switched to T5's EVERY coral in my tank was brown for one to two weeks, except WWC'S Pink Sapphire,it was still neon pink. I think it is something with the spectrum aswell. If they could fix that, LED's would be a very great lighting choice,not saying they aren't,but I prefer T5's.

 

[KLR]

1) the SPS corals weren't as colorful as they initially were under LED, most of them browned out.
2) The SPS growth results of the frags that were placed under T5s was almost double that of the ones under the LEDs.
3) The results of LPS and softies frags was pretty much the same under all the lighting.
4) Zoas were brighter and grew faster under the LEDs.

Same exact thing with me^

My Jedi Mind Trick is growing 5times faster under a 4bulb T5 fixture than it was under a LED pendant!

 

[Salty Dog]

this is a great thread and I always felt the same about these over priced LED light systems. I did the experiment to with a Home made Cree Led light system, I have a 120 total led's with 4 drivers and had them on my 225 frag tank. I had that awesome false color also, the Leds bring out a false pigment in color because the led's amplify the color only.
I now run 4-250w halides with 4-t-5 and 4-vho lights.
I have great color so to take these corals and put them under leds would take the color to another level. A false level.

 

[CJO]

If you lose colors going from LED to MH, it sounds like your MH are actually missing something!

If coral taken from LED's and put directly into a MH tank looks totally different (Like what Troylee explained) then it's not missing something, it just looks different under different lighting which is why so many people are bummed when they put frags in their tank that came from LED tanks.

Not to argue, but the reason that it looks different is because the MH is not putting out the same amount of light at a certain spectrum. The color an object gets is either because it reflects a certain spectrum of light or because it absorbs a certain spectrum of light and then outputs it at a different spectrum.

I think that the biggest issue that people have is that they underestimate the quantity of light that the LEDs put out. It is very easy to burn your corals with LEDs. Also, LEDs are not focused light beams. You can put optics on them to focus them, but most of them originally have a 120 degree to 180 degree light output.

I respect the intensity and know about optics, but the reason they burn corals is because of how focused the light is despite the optics. If LEDS were so strong and weren't "focused", then it wouldnt be necessary to have to put 100 LEDS over a tank to have even coverage.

The optics focus the light. The LEDs are not naturally focused. You don't have to put 100 LEDs over a tank to have even coverage. You can do it with just a few if you don't put on optics. However, because they are then not focused, you do not get the PAR rating you need. When you add the optics to focus the light, you raise the PAR, but then also have to add more so that you can get the coverage you need.

Troy, I have to agree with you that LED gives a false color on the corals. I've bought some chalices that looked awesome under LED's and when I put them under my Radiums, they looked totally different. I felt like I've been taken for a ride and will never buy any corals under LED's again. I mean I've seen a Tyree red watermelon under LED's that have yellow eyes and yellow rim, when it's suppose to be green. Talk about false colors right?

Symantics, but they don't give you a false color, they give you a different one. If you live all of your life wearing rose colored glasses, most everything looks red. One day you take them off and see all of the other colors, are these then false colors?

Maybe it's just my system but about a year and a half ago when I was looking into LEDs as my primary light source, I decided to experiment with on a smaller scale before spending tons of $$ on it.

In addition to my main display tank, I setup 2 smaller frag tanks and hooked them to my main system so the parms were the same. On one of the small tanks I had a BoostLED PAR30 bulb (4xb, 1xw), on the other I had a DIY CREE LED setup....I also added a BoostLED PAR30 (3xb, 2xw) to my fuge.

I then cut some frags from my main display, all approximately the same size and the same corals. I placed frags of each type of corals in all the smaller tanks and the DT (under T5s). Initially the colors were much more intense under all the LEDs.

After 1 year, from my little experiment I found that:

1) the SPS corals weren't as colorful as they initially were under LED, most of them browned out.
2) The SPS growth results of the frags that were placed under T5s was almost double that of the ones under the LEDs.
3) The results of LPS and softies frags was pretty much the same under all the lighting.
4) Zoas were brighter and grew faster under the LEDs.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing these observations. My guess is that the LEDs you were using are not outputting enough lighting in the spectrum your SPS corals use for photosynthesis.

CJ

 

[BayCorals]

Symantics, but they don't give you a false color, they give you a different one. If you live all of your life wearing rose colored glasses, most everything looks red. One day you take them off and see all of the other colors, are these then false colors?
CJ

Yes you have a point there, but to me corals under LED's don't look natural. Take my example of the Tyree Red watermelon having yellow eyes and yellow rim under LED's. This is not the natural color of the chalice.

 

[Nate82]

Yes you have a point there, but to me corals under LED's don't look natural. Take my example of the Tyree Red watermelon having yellow eyes and yellow rim under LED's. This is not the natural color of the chalice.

Haha ever seen corals in their natural environment? Theyre all brown as dirt! We dont strive to keep natural corals, we strive to keep colorful ones. I guess some just see LEDs as the easiest way to that goal.

 

[BayCorals]

Haha ever seen corals in their natural environment? Theyre all brown as dirt! We dont strive to keep natural corals, we strive to keep colorful ones. I guess some just see LEDs as the easiest way to that goal.

Yeah, but even when you have all the lights off and put the Red watermelon in sunlight. You can still see the green eyes and green rim under natural sunlight only.

 

[ReefMP]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing these observations. My guess is that the LEDs you were using are not outputting enough lighting in the spectrum your SPS corals use for photosynthesis.

CJ

That's my assumption too, that's why I decided to keep T5's as my primary and supplement with LEDs. To be fair, I should mention that I didn't use the BoostLED PAR30 bulbs from the beginning of the experiment, when I got those bulbs I took some of the frags I had under CREE's and placed them under BoostLEDs. But in either case, for me T5's produced better overall results. I'm sure there are better LED on the market today but I'll just wait a bit.

 

[UFreefer]

Haha ever seen corals in their natural environment? Theyre all brown as dirt! We dont strive to keep natural corals, we strive to keep colorful ones. I guess some just see LEDs as the easiest way to that goal.

Where have you seen them? I was in Fiji this past March for 3 weeks and dove all of the best reefs in Fiji, visited Walt Smith International and I was blown away with the colors. I used to think "Zeo" colors were not natural but I'd say they are very close to what many of the corals look like in Fiji.

 

[Stpatrick]

No doubt they work... I guess you have to experience it to explain it... My corals under LEDs look awesome very healthy and grow great no problems... Take a coral out of LEDs and stick it under a mh it's brown instantly.... Yes I agree corals look different under different lighting etc... LEDs give false colors I should say...

Troylee, I am confused. Maybe I should read to the end but you sound like your happy with your LEDS. Why are you moving away from them? You were ONE of the reason I switched to all leds on my DT. I currently have a ton of sticks, chalices, zoas, monties, and just a few LPS. My sps frags and mini colonies are mostly high end hard to get coral bought from a lot of folks right here. They all mostly look, grow and color up like they are supposed to. I am running 3 AI sol blues at the moment at about 65 - 70 percent. I ramp them up and down 4 hours. I only have a couple sps that wont color up correctly. My acro nana colony when I bought is was green body and purple tips and is now brown body with blue tips. My red planet is more pink then red. Other then that things are looking great. Not to mention my power bill went down 125 per month :)

 

[Redstag]

Thread of the month!

 

[Stpatrick]

My first time trying to get picture of my corals. Here are a few. Sorry for the quality issue. Not used to my new camera. LED 100%.

Pictures by stpatrick007 - Photobucket

 

[UFreefer]

Not to argue, but the reason that it looks different is because the MH is not putting out the same amount of light at a certain spectrum. The color an object gets is either because it reflects a certain spectrum of light or because it absorbs a certain spectrum of light and then outputs it at a different spectrum.

It's kind of like you are trying to argue everyone's point, but are just scientifically explaining why their observations are happening.

If a light only outputs certain spectrums so only certain colors of the coral are highlighted and not others then I'd call it False Color. Maybe I should ship rose colored glasses with my frags so they look good better in everyone's tank because it's techincally not false, just symantics.

The optics focus the light. The LEDs are not naturally focused. You don't have to put 100 LEDs over a tank to have even coverage. You can do it with just a few if you don't put on optics. However, because they are then not focused, you do not get the PAR rating you need. When you add the optics to focus the light, you raise the PAR, but then also have to add more so that you can get the coverage you need.

True, but who would use LEDs as their primary light source without optics? Nobody would because they are only strong enough to grow coral if you make them focused light beams and in turn need a ton of them to have even coverage on a tank. It's assummed that anyone running LED's as their main light source runs them with optics which is why I said they are focused.

It's obvious that you are a bright guy and know what you are talking about but you basically arguing your own points.

 

[Redstag]

What do you think about T5?

Not to argue, but the reason that it looks different is because the MH is not putting out the same amount of light at a certain spectrum. The color an object gets is either because it reflects a certain spectrum of light or because it absorbs a certain spectrum of light and then outputs it at a different spectrum.

 

[Troylee]

Troylee, I am confused. Maybe I should read to the end but you sound like your happy with your LEDS. Why are you moving away from them? You were ONE of the reason I switched to all leds on my DT. I currently have a ton of sticks, chalices, zoas, monties, and just a few LPS. My sps frags and mini colonies are mostly high end hard to get coral bought from a lot of folks right here. They all mostly look, grow and color up like they are supposed to. I am running 3 AI sol blues at the moment at about 65 - 70 percent. I ramp them up and down 4 hours. I only have a couple sps that wont color up correctly. My acro nana colony when I bought is was green body and purple tips and is now brown body with blue tips. My red planet is more pink then red. Other then that things are looking great. Not to mention my power bill went down 125 per month :)

i am happy with them in my display well old display.... the only reason i switched back is i didnt have the money to build a new led fixture for my new tank so i found a mh t5 combo.... when i started to move my corals over i was like hey!!!! wait a minute that coral is green with purple tips not brown with purple tips what is going on here.... after moving 75 percent of my corals over i woas like wow there very dull and boring something is fishy with my leds..... if i had'nt set up my new tank i would have never noticed ,the corals under leds look awesome the growth is there etc no complaints.... my problem is!!!!! i have sold a few pieces and people are like what the heck bro these look nothing like your picture " accusing me mr. cell phone pics" of photoshopiing or something when i don't own that program or even know how to use it..... i was really confused because for the most part my pics look pretty dang close to the actual coral but these people were saying there dull or brown etc.... i thought maybe it was stress from shipping and wrote it off as that.... then 6 months go by i set up the new cube and im like hey what the heck!!!!!! now it all makes sense why i am experiencing this is beyond me but that's what happened....

 

[Reef Pets]

TL - There is a HUGE difference in lighting and it seems like your main concern is that when you sell or trade coral people are unhappy with the coral when placed in their reef. I hear this complaint from people at times and I use Radium 20K MH, a rather common bulb... The first thing I ask is what kind of lighting do you have when people say the coral do not look the same in their tank compared to the photo. Much of the time people will say they don't know, Power Compacts, VHO and many times they tell me they have a light from Home Depot..... On the other hand I always know when people have great lighting because they tell me the coral looks much better in their tank compared to the photos.
In all, you will never be able to make everyone happy with your frags. All you can do is post the lighting that is being used in the photo. Anyone that has been in this hobby for any period of time knows that lighting makes all the difference in the world when it comes to the color of a coral.

 

[Stpatrick]

i am happy with them in my display well old display.... the only reason i switched back is i didnt have the money to build a new led fixture for my new tank so i found a mh t5 combo.... when i started to move my corals over i was like hey!!!! wait a minute that coral is green with purple tips not brown with purple tips what is going on here.... after moving 75 percent of my corals over i woas like wow there very dull and boring something is fishy with my leds..... if i had'nt set up my new tank i would have never noticed ,the corals under leds look awesome the growth is there etc no complaints.... my problem is!!!!! i have sold a few pieces and people are like what the heck bro these look nothing like your picture " accusing me mr. cell phone pics" of photoshopiing or something when i don't own that program or even know how to use it..... i was really confused because for the most part my pics look pretty dang close to the actual coral but these people were saying there dull or brown etc.... i thought maybe it was stress from shipping and wrote it off as that.... then 6 months go by i set up the new cube and im like hey what the heck!!!!!! now it all makes sense why i am experiencing this is beyond me but that's what happened....

Oh... Got ya. Now I understand.