Calculating risk mitigation?

[Johnd651]

Just thinking about this recently after seeing multiple posts about system redundancy.

I want to preface this by saying I do understand everyone's finances and level of risk acceptance are different.

What level of risk are you willing to accept? How do you value your tank against the risk? How do you prioritize what risk needs to be mitigated? Do you compare the value of your tank against the risk?

Examples...

Heater vs heater w/controller vs spare heater replacement vs multiple heaters vs multiple controllers?

Battery backup vs generator vs standby?

Keeping spare equipment?

Again, not to bash anyone's thought process, but I have seen people buy generators for their tank but refuse to get RODI.

Or have more tied up in spare equipment then the value of livestock.

 

[tbrown]

Just thinking about this recently after seeing multiple posts about system redundancy.

I want to preface this by saying I do understand everyone's finances and level of risk acceptance are different.

What level of risk are you willing to accept? How do you value your tank against the risk? How do you prioritize what risk needs to be mitigated? Do you compare the value of your tank against the risk?

Examples...

Heater vs heater w/controller vs spare heater replacement vs multiple heaters vs multiple controllers?

Battery backup vs generator vs standby?

Keeping spare equipment?

Again, not to bash anyone's thought process, but I have seen people buy generators for their tank but refuse to get RODI.

Or have more tied up in spare equipment then the value of livestock.

Hey, why you knocking people that don't use RODI???

You realize I just recently started using RODI, right? I think the middle of December.

 

[Johnd651]

Hey, why you knocking people that don't use RODI???

You realize I just recently started using RODI, right? I think the middle of December.

I'm not.. I'm knocking people running city chloramine water with a tds in the 100s. Your solar distilled water is pure.

 

[exnisstech]

I keep back up return pumps for every tank but I run jebao dcp pumps so they are affordable. I have spare heaters and spare controllers. Spare power heads. Spare lights. Spare tanks for emergency hospital set up. Rodi with brutes, one full of rodi and one full of saltwater mix. A brute full of live rock so I can cycle a tank in the amount of time it takes to fill it. Spare skimmers because I only run one these days. 100g and 40g stock tanks in case a tank fails and I need I get everything out fast. I think that's all the back up stuff I have. I recently installed an 18kw whole home generator. The generator was a big expense but I set up a large tank last March that houses fish and coral that I have had for over 8 years and I just don't want to have to deal with the misery of loosing everything if I could have prevented it.
That said I worked full time for 48 years, I live modestly in a sub 1200 sq ft ranch and I have zero debt and can pay every monthly bill without having to dip into my retirement funds. Not a luxury everyone has.
I spent my life fixing broken stuff and failed components so I'm of the mind set that everything is going to fail at some point it's just a matter of when and how inconvenient it is going to be. I try to make sure when something fails I'm not too inconvienced.

EDIT: I do not run any controllers for the reasons mentioned as above, another point of failure. But I do not travel and I sleep in my own bed every night so I don't need automation. Again not a luxury everyone has.

 

[BryanM]

I have two heaters, on two seperate helios, and an apex monitoring temps.

I have two return pumps.

I have two icecap 2k gyres, and two tunze 6055's (I think). I only run two powerheads in the tank at any time.

I run an apex with programming and alerts.

I run a KH Guarding for alk monitoring and dosing to keep as consistent as possible

I run a hydros waveengine to change flows up.

I don't have a backup apex or eb832.

Honestly, I justified solar and battery backup on the house, in *part* due to the tank. It was more for saving money due to PGE bills, but I still used this as well.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Again, not to bash anyone's thought process, but I have seen people buy generators for their tank but refuse to get RODI.

Or have more tied up in spare equipment then the value of livestock.

I don’t get the issue with either?

My livestock is worth virtually nothing…

I have $6K in GHL equipment, $20K in a generator, and a fortune in pumps, testing equipment, etc.

20 years of electricity, etc.

There is nothing living in my tank of monetary value and, as insensitive as it sounds, nothing of world ending sentimental value. Sure, I take the responsibility of caring for my charges seriously and feel bad if something dies, especially if I am at fault….

But I don’t see your logic. Each of us assigns value differently.

 

[KrisReef]

I keep back up return pumps for every tank but I run jebao dcp pumps so they are affordable. I have spare heaters and spare controllers. Spare power heads. Spare lights. Spare tanks for emergency hospital set up. Rodi with brutes, one full of rodi and one full of saltwater mix. A brute full of live rock so I can cycle a tank in the amount of time it takes to fill it. Spare skimmers because I only run one these days. 100g and 40g stock tanks in case a tank fails and I need I get everything out fast. I think that's all the back up stuff I have. I recently installed an 18kw whole home generator. The generator was a big expense but I set up a large tank last March that houses fish and coral that I have had for over 8 years and I just don't want to have to deal with the misery of loosing everything if I could have prevented it.
That said I worked full time for 48 years, I live modestly in a sub 1200 sq ft ranch and I have zero debt and can pay every monthly bill without having to dip into my retirement funds. Not a luxury everyone has.
I spent my life fixing broken stuff and failed components so I'm of the mind set that everything is going to fail at some point it's just a matter of when and how inconvenient it is going to be. I try to make sure when something fails I'm not too inconvienced.

EDIT: I do not run any controllers for the reasons mentioned as above, another point of failure. But I do not travel and I sleep in my own bed every night so I don't need automation. Again not a luxury everyone has.

You need to buy more tanks and coral to fulfill your Reefing Happiness!

Haha, loll. It’s great once the situation is going well for a person who God has blessed with security and peace.

I am still trying to figure out the peace issue but I am also grateful for the opportunities that have come from many years of struggle with the situation.

If this is offensive, please reread it and understand that I meant no offense.

I miss being young and thinking clearly about what I might write.

 

[Johnd651]

None of this offends or is meant to offend. I am just honestly curious to understand the logic behind the risk mitigation.

@BeanAnimal is this redundancy though or just your setup?

I am trying to understand why some people have a Ford pinto on the road, and enough parts to build 2 mustangs in the garage?

Why buy equipment, especially with how fast wifi, Bluetooth, etc stuff changes to hold onto until something breaks. By then, is the unopened redundancy obsolete anyway?

I live out in the country, but have heaters and pumps for mixing water. If something in the tank dies,I can replace and order/ go to store and buy a replacement.

I do have a battery on the pump and heater, portable generator, and solar.

Also, i do feel that there is a difference between collecting spares over the lifetime of the hobby and entering the hobby and buying spares up front because a YouTube video or influencer said so.

I guess big picture.. how much redundancy is actually fear?

 

[exnisstech]

You need to buy more tanks and coral to fulfill your Reefing Happiness!

Haha, loll. It’s great once the situation is going well for a person who God has blessed with security and peace.

I am still trying to figure out the peace issue but I am also grateful for the opportunities that have come from many years of struggle with the situation.

If this is offensive, please reread it and understand that I meant no offense.

I miss being young and thinking clearly about what I might write.

I've been very fortunate but I too am working on the peace but it's been elusive. I make do the best I can and try not to bring down the people close to me. Immersing myself in my hobbies is a form of therapy and helps fend off the negative thoughts.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The point is, that each person will apply their own logic to their own needs, budget, etc.

For some that may be preventing loss, others convenience of not having to wait on parts… for others it may be liking what they have and buying spares for when the model is discontinued.

Some people don’t care about loss of livestock but worry about floods, or odors, or the spouse getting upset.

I think you will find as many reasons and methods as you do people.

Some of it very logical and some of it illogical. Some of it well planned and some of it based on fallacy or poor advice.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Or have more tied up in spare equipment then the value of livestock.

Remember - for some of us, our livestock has more value than the dollar figure we spent on it.

 

[tbrown]

I'm not.. I'm knocking people running city chloramine water with a tds in the 100s. Your solar distilled water is pure.

With 300+ TDS...?

 

[BeanAnimal]

My system ran for 7 years on the same set of expired filters, membrane and resin. The TDS out was higher than the tap water…

I changed them over a year ago… maybe a bit longer. Have not looked at the TDS meter or resin color since

 

[Johnd651]

None of what anyone has posted is new or surprising...completely why I asked these specific questions in the original post.

What level of risk are you willing to accept? How do you value your tank against the risk? How do you prioritize what risk needs to be mitigated? Do you compare the value of your tank against the risk?

I am honestly curious on how people answer those questions. I don't care if people have over redundancy or under.

I've been in multiple sectors during my career, but overall mainly deal with projects, value, and risk (including M&A, logistics, recovery). Even in business there are varying degrees of acceptable risk, but they have to be calculated, and not emotional. I 100% agree I don't want any of my animals to suffer including the tanks, and we have a small farm, but part of that is emotional and taking care of live animals.

 

[GARRIGA]

By nature I tend to be risk averse depending on the situation but when it pertains to maintaining the living that's not up for debate. Fact is I won't start my main build until I've resolved my energy concerns during a blackout due to tropical storm activity which is getting worse annually where I live. Unless I get discus as they won't mind 88 degree for several days. At the speed corals grow and the cost of fish, seems wasteful from a financial position to ignore this real world concern and from as pet perspective would be tragic to lose that you've nourished and grown fond of although with me this would be relative to fish. Not sure I'd ever call an invert my pet but I'm sure there are those that do and that's fine too.

All components obviously will have redundancies in not only the parts themselves but controllers to manage their being on and off. Acrylic always a serious consideration as I'd rather deal with scratches then floor receiving it's contents. Leaks or bursts probably not on all lists as a redundancy yet probably the one area most likely to fail and perhaps added bracing might help along with thicker glass/acrylic against children and inadvertent bumps or uneven stands or the boogie man.

 

[AmateurAlchemist]

I have a spare for everything critical- heater, powerhead, return pump and light. All are from now decommissioned, smaller tanks so technically cost nothing.

I run a single heater but have a heater on a heater controller on a GHL powerbar/temp probe. If the heater controller fails on, GHL will alert and power down the powerbar socket. If it fails off and I'm away I can activate a heat pump on an A/C unit in the room remotely.

In case of power failure, I have a small gas stove to heat water and Jackery to run powerheads.

All but the light have been deployed and arguably saved the tank in the last 6 months.

I build out datacenters for a living so having redundancy is just ingrained in my DNA

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just thinking about this recently after seeing multiple posts about system redundancy.

I'm big on risk mitigation, but it's not focused on equipment failures except heaters, which do have a high problem rate. I don't generally plan to stock backup equipment. I've had almost no issues due to failures of equipment, and with amazon delivery of many emergency things a day away, most equipment can be obtained fast, at least for a temp fix.

To me it means things like

what happens in a power failure?

Can overflows get clogged and back up?

Can the ATO overfill the tank?

Can the AWC overfill or drain the tank?

Can the RO/Di water be left on?

Can one stop heaters if temp rises excessively? Same for temp lowering.

How will I know if the tank is OK when not home?

 

[captainsmitty]

I spent my life fixing broken stuff and failed components so I'm of the mind set that everything is going to fail at some point it's just a matter of when and how inconvenient it is going to be. I try to make sure when something fails I'm not too inconvienced.

Agree with this 100%

 

[RocketEngineer]

My RODI has a float valve on the storage tank so I can set it up to run overnight with a good chance of not having water on the floor come morning.

I have 4 pumps: (2) are for the returns, (1) for RODI to the ATO container, and (1) for mixing SW. they are all the same. That way, I can move one around until I get a replacement if the need arises.

My heaters are on my Apex to ensure they behave. I have two new ones ready to go in soon because both stopped working right. They don’t turn off by themselves anymore so out they go. The apex is doing its job. Now I need to do mine.

I have two of the same powerheads in the tank so if need be I can buy a third and reuse parts. They are from a brand that’s been in this hobby longer than I have so they know their stuff.

If it’s not broke, don’t mess with it. But keep spares Or have two.

Getting replacements was an issue I had a number of years ago. I don’t go for the latest thing anymore. Instead I go for hardware that’s survived the test of time, even if it’s more expensive.

 

[BillFish Coral Lover]

None of this offends or is meant to offend. I am just honestly curious to understand the logic behind the risk mitigation.

@BeanAnimal is this redundancy though or just your setup?

I am trying to understand why some people have a Ford pinto on the road, and enough parts to build 2 mustangs in the garage?

Why buy equipment, especially with how fast wifi, Bluetooth, etc stuff changes to hold onto until something breaks. By then, is the unopened redundancy obsolete anyway?

I live out in the country, but have heaters and pumps for mixing water. If something in the tank dies,I can replace and order/ go to store and buy a replacement.

I do have a battery on the pump and heater, portable generator, and solar.

Also, i do feel that there is a difference between collecting spares over the lifetime of the hobby and entering the hobby and buying spares up front because a YouTube video or influencer said so.

I guess big picture.. how much redundancy is actually fear?

Individualism. I say tomato, you say tom-ahto. That’s simple enough to me.