Calling out all vendors... Ultra Rare Super Toxic Holy Garbage...

[Sharkbait19]

Yeah, there’s a pretty good reason I started only buying corals locally. Online vendors take way too much advantage of the customers, and oftentimes the corals are in such terrible condition. When you buy locally, you can (usually) negotiate reasonable prices and get truly honest advice and sales from the vendor.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Post in thread 'Fishy's Fraggy Wonderland' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fishys-fraggy-wonderland.774016/post-10848082

As I thought.

The op brags about a x-name 750$ a head torch in his build thread so obviously he's driven by the name game and high price tags just like everyone else.

 

[BigTimeIssues]

The best online sellers are the best at taking photos. Not saying they can't grow and keep healthy coral.. but those ultra saturates photos in the blue lights is what sells. You get the coral in your tank and it looks nothing like the picture. So then you buy a filter and turn the blues up and take a picture.. then share it on the forums, be like "hey look what I got!"

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

The best online sellers are the best at taking photos. Not saying they can't grow and keep healthy coral.. but those ultra saturates photos in the blue lights is what sells. You get the coral in your tank and it looks nothing like the picture. So then you buy a filter and turn the blues up and take a picture.. then share it on the forums, be like "hey look what I got!"

That's exactly what I was pointing out earlier!

 

[unchaotic]

The tactic that bugs me the most is when corals are listed with an original price and a 'sale' price, but you never actually see it posted at the 'original' price. "Oh this must be a good deal, it's $200 off even though it's never actually $200 more!"

Years ago, my mom worked in a jewelry store that did the same thing. When a seller is used to getting ridiculously high margins on something they have a hard time accepting less.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't any better. When my wife and I used to talk about getting her a new car we figured we'd be lucky to get $2,000 for her old one. Fast forward 2 years and her car was older with more miles on it and we sold it for over $4k. The market allowed us to do it and we weren't passing up on the money.

 

[unchaotic]

a zoomed in and bright blue picture taken at 1/2" distance with a 500$ camera

Not exactly arguing with you, but try $5,000 camera. I get way too involved with all of the hobbies I do so I started researching taking better pictures. Telescopic macro lenses are crazy expensive.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

What do you want?

The edit button exists.

I know if I tried to call someone out in a good faith discussion, was corrected with information I previously didn't have and shown to be completely incorrect; I would caveat my original Wrong post with the Factual information instead of leaving it there, knowingly misleading others.

I know the torch you're referring to. I was the other part of the joke. I know exactly what the op paid for that torch as I was also in on that buy.

 

[BigBundee69]

You see i used to buy this argument. Until i realized that every hobbyist that keeps coral is essentially a coral farm. We don't need the vendors. they are the 2nd or 3rd person to touch our coral before we get them if they are even getting them from wholesaler. they are cultivating and selling frags that are barely bigger than my pinky nail. My SPS put on that much growth or more every month. I break off $1k worth of frags every time i put my stupid clumsy big hands in my tank... And i can tell you from experience that the margin on coral is far better than the margin on fish. I am only speaking to coral. i know the hardships that the small shops face when trying to fight against giant companies like BRS and online vendors to make a sale. those margins are super narrow.

Just researching for the past few months this seems to be the best bet of finding corals, people have to trim and frag out their corals from their tank and usually just throw it in the trash when i know i cant be the only one that would spend 10-20$ a frag or something and pay for the shipping for something nice from someone just getting rid of it. My closest LFS is 2 hours away so i wind up paying about 80$ for one frag just going out there

 

[GARRIGA]

I'm not bashing another for working the system. Consumers best educate themselves and see through the marketing nonsense. Fact we have inflation because consumers can't control themselves until jobs are eliminated and funds dry up quickly. Do agree prices have gotten out of control but consumers don't need to pay them. That's how prices drop back to reasonable. Plus no way I'm paying $800 for a mushroom with worts on it although I want a bunch of them.

 

[Tamberav]

I try not to buy from places that doctor images too much or show only under blues.

I also prefer places that aquaculture like cultivated reef, boom corals, battle corals, premier reefs, marine farmers and so on.

Other hobbiests and locals are another great place to buy. You can often just go see it in person.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I have learned that certain sellers will give you a letter of authenticity when you buy an original coral that they are the original sellers. Such as Jason Fox if you buy a Homewrecker acro, etc. Can anyone confirm this? That would at least give the buyer something to have a standard to in higher pricing. Perhaps the industry should follow suit, similar to dog pedigrees for certain coral.

 

[unchaotic]

I suppose i can only complain to a point, the fact that i can even have corals in my living room while it is 10 below out in landlocked montana is pretty cool. If corals were cheap to get here i would have to assume i was living in a fever dream.

I'm in Minot, North Dakota so I kind of feel this. It costs so much to get stuff shipped out here, and the odds of it surviving the trip are not great for the majority of the year.

But this is why everything that actually grows well in my tank is sell-able/trade-able. Even my chaeto prunings are occassionally desired by local reefers. The only thing I've really seen people struggle to sell around here are RBTAs because they take over everyone's tanks. And I can't keep the things alive ...

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I have learned that certain sellers will give you a letter of authenticity when you buy an original coral that they are the original sellers. Such as Jason Fox if you buy a Homewrecker acro, etc. Can anyone confirm this? That would at least give the buyer something to have a standard to in higher pricing. Perhaps the industry should follow suit, similar to dog pedigrees for certain coral.

This is already semi common with coral fetching higher dollar. It's not so much of a certificate of authenticity as much as proof of purchase as lineage.

We don't need this on say WWC Bounce because it is so unique, anyone can tell what it is.

In the torch game though, if you buy a ASD HG, later frag and sell the heads, you'll likely be asked for the proof of lineage.

 

[Reefer Matt]

This is already semi common with coral fetching higher dollar. It's not so much of a certificate of authenticity as much as proof of purchase as lineage.

We don't need this on say WWC Bounce because it is so unique, anyone can tell what it is.

In the torch game though, if you buy a ASD HG, later frag and sell the heads, you'll likely be asked for the proof of lineage.

Thank you. So sorta like buying a pure breed dog without papers, and trying to sell puppies later. I think with some of the outrageous prices on coral, some form of certification should give the buyer confidence they are indeed buying what is advertised when they get those "designer pieces". Just a thought, I know it is far fetched.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Thank you. So sorta like buying a pure breed dog without papers, and trying to sell puppies later. I think with some of the outrageous prices on coral, some form of certification should give the buyer confidence they are indeed buying what is advertised when they get those "designer pieces". Just a thought, I know it is far fetched.

Sort of, yeah.

If you're buying a champion line golden retriever pup for $5,000, you should expect to see the perigee with Red line champions.

If you're buying a golden pup from an unregistered litter for $500, they may be genetically identical, but one will command the higher price, due to the paperwork with it.

This already happens in corals.

 

[SpyC]

Bro, just buy stuff from local people and don't pay absurd prices. There is always going to be someone that will pay that absurd price and that perfectly okay, as that is their prerogative. The same coral from top shelf can be found in your local area for like half the price.

*looks around* oh I see I am the only local. Well that plan worked well...

 

[elysics]

How much are those pieces of paper worth once you are 3 or 4 steps down the frag propagation line? Are you going to call up all the previous sellers and expect them to have documented what they sold to whom and tell you so?

And I disagree that that should be the future. When two sellers get frags of the same coral from the same mariculture table, there shouldn't be a system in place that protects each having their own name, if anything it should do the opposite, make public that they are the same thing and one/both names are illegitimate. Once you are not buying directly from those names, any benefit of particular care they put into biosecurity or coloration etc is gone anyway, you just pay for the genes.

Noone is actually doing targeted breeding yet with corals, unlike with dogs. People just sell clones.

 

[bigbugoutfitters]

*looks around* oh I see I am the only local. Well that plan worked well...

My problem exactly, 180 miles to the nearest reefer i know. Cost of gas negates any savings :’)

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

*looks around* oh I see I am the only local. Well that plan worked well...

Look on the bright side. You have a monopoly in your local area and can charge WHATEVER you want and they will have to pay it. Now you just have to find A customer.

 

[LPS Bum]

Dear Vendors,

Your use of the words Super, Ultra, Rare, Holy, OG, Rainbow, Unique, ETC is absurd. I am seeing labels placed on coral that is nothing short of blah and mundane. But I guess those words don't command high dollar amounts. For all those that insist on selling Zoanthids at such high prices PER POLYP, for the vendors that are selling coral at hundreds and thousands of dollars based on a name. You are pricing people out of the hobby.

I understand capitalism. I understand that there are some instances when it costs more to import and grow a coral, cultivate it. But I refuse to believe that the greed that i see in this hobby today is anything short of just that GREED...

Wake up hobbyists... Live sale, flash sale, they aren't really sales. and these are the same vendors selling 1500 coral at an average price of 50 a coral every 2 weeks during these "sales". Not to mention the product they sell in between. For those of you that math is hard, that is $112,500 for each flash sale at that price. Even if they only do one a month or one for every holiday or other event like "back to school sale".... They are still doing 12 to 20 of these sales a year. They are robbing us blind as hobbyists.

There is so much more that can be said... but until hobbyists are no longer willing to pay these prices and go back to the trade them if you have them mentality, eventually this will end up being a hobby for the ULTR SUPER RARE HOLY OG RICH people....


Anyone want to buy a super ultra rare og Tiger torch?

I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but ultimately we as hobbyists make the decision on whether to buy those overpriced pieces or not. As in, if you don't want to pay a ridiculously inflated price for a coral, don't buy it. Simple as that.

If enough people follow that mantra, the demand for those overpriced corals collapses, and the prices drop accordingly, regardless of the fancy names. It's economics 101.

I don't think you can fault coral farmers for trying to maximize their profits. If people are willing to pay those prices, then the market will bear it out. You say you understand capitalism. Well, that's capitalism.