Can a DT really be disease-free?

[Robert Vacchiano]

I think marine velvet is a bigger problem. Harder to cure and quicker to kill

 

[JamesP]

Could you use ruby reef rally after the 76 days to make sure there is no velvet on the corals? It says it is reef safe, but i have never used the stuff. Maybe 76 days in qt and 2 days in a bucket with rally? This is a question really, and not a suggestion.

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

Just finished using ruby reef rally ank kick ick on a 300 gallon display. Did a full two treatment by box instructions for a month worth of treatment.I can tell you the stuff is useless. Forget trying it.Did nothing lost three fish and water quality suffered during treatment because you have to remove carbon stop protein skimmer and stop using uv .

 

[Humblefish]

Could you use ruby reef rally after the 76 days to make sure there is no velvet on the corals? It says it is reef safe, but i have never used the stuff. Maybe 76 days in qt and 2 days in a bucket with rally? This is a question really, and not a suggestion.

As an antiseptic, Rally (acriflavine) is best suited to be used in a 90 min bath to ward off the possibility of a secondary bacterial infection.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Whats Ich?

I agree have seen it on new fish but a week or two after being in the display it is clear. I have never QT any new addition.

 

[Crashjack]

I agree quarantining is important and strongly appreciate all of the work done and help given by Humble Fish and others regarding this subject. Though a truly sterile tank is certainly possible, I think we have a lot less control than we think. If you think about it, a lot of research, equipment, and training have gone into sterilizing procedures, operating room protocols, and post-op protocols, yet it isn't uncommon for surgery patients to develop infections. To think the average hobbyist can maintain a sterile display tank by following a specific set of quarantine procedures is pretty naive.

In regards to quarantining, I think the key is to do as much as practical, which differs by person. The more one does with quarantining, the better chance there will be no problems in the DT. However, there is always a chance something bad will happen in the DT, no matter how much quarantining one does. I also believe that as quarantine time increases, the chances of livestock mortality in quarantine also increases. If not, why spend so much time, effort, and money to create perfect water parameters, proper flow, quality lighting, etc. in our display tanks if we can do just as well on the cheap in our quarantine tanks?

Mine isn't an argument to avoid quarantining. On the contrary, I think it's kind of silly not to. I just think each person has to develop a quarantine plan that he/she is comfortable with and has the ability to carry out, and then stick to it. It won't likely be full-proof, but a heck of a lot better than doing nothing.

 

[skihard1234Anth]

Foolproof

 

[JamesP]

As an antiseptic, Rally (acriflavine) is best suited to be used in a 90 min bath to ward off the possibility of a secondary bacterial infection.

I though acriflavine was the new recommended prophylactic treatment for new fish additions to prevent brook and velvet as oposed to formalin because formalin is a carcinogen.

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

Have used there hydroplex and it seams to work but that is a 10 minute dip would never use rally and kick ick again had no effect on what I think was velvet and prolong use in a reef only deteriorate water quality making things worse .I can say it seamed to help with secondary infections but what's the point if fish eventually die from ick or velvet and it does effect some corals negatively

 

[melypr1985]

I though acriflavine was the new recommended prophylactic treatment for new fish additions to prevent brook and velvet as oposed to formalin because formalin is a carcinogen.

It's not real clear why acriflavin treats brook, but when it comes to velvet, the only thing it's treating is the secondary bacterial infections that can cause just as much damage as the velvet itself. It's only a single step in the protocol to cure velvet.

 

[bean2986]

I've read a few articles about the DT being Ich free if no new introductions after 10-11 months due to "wearing itself out". Is this valid?

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

True but if you read the rally box it says to use rally because you could be mistaken ick and it could be velvet.They make it sound that it would cure velvet. I have only had luck curing fish with velvet out of display with copper

 

[melypr1985]

I've read a few articles about the DT being Ich free if no new introductions after 10-11 months due to "wearing itself out". Is this valid?

I've heard of that, but I think it's years, not months.

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

I think it can be if no other fish are carriers of it then you would have to have no fish if fish carry it but sometimes does not show .I have a yellow tang that lived through multiple outbreaks with no signs of it

 

[Robert Vacchiano]

I would wait at least 4 months after all signs of ick or velvet are gone before trying to add something new and preferably not a tang

 

[melypr1985]

I would wait at least 4 months after all signs of ick or velvet are gone before trying to add something new and preferably not a tang

That is likely to lead to disaster especially with velvet.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I would always do #2 no matter what; because while the "48 hour rule" applies to ich theronts, velvet dinospores (free swimmers) can remain active for up to 15 days before starving to death without a fish host to feed upon. You'll definitely want to "rinse away" any of those.

15 days for velvet is scary though. So maybe a minimum of 15-20 days since the last addition in addition to rinsing? What would the "safest" option be? Obviously 76 days with no new additions, but I like buying stuff here and there

 

[ngoodermuth]

I've read a few articles about the DT being Ich free if no new introductions after 10-11 months due to "wearing itself out". Is this valid?

The thing with this is you can't introduce a new strain of the parasite, meaning every fish and wet thing going in the tank would need QT and prophylactic treatment.

If a new strain hitches in on fish or coral it refreshes the breeding pool and sort of resets the clock.

That also means you are spending time and resources to carefully QT just to dump a healthy fish in a parasite-infested tank.

I'm not even sure this has been proven but the last point is enough to keep me from trying it. That's why I'm going eradication vs. management.

 

[bean2986]

The thing with this is you can't introduce a new strain of the parasite, meaning every fish and wet thing going in the tank would need QT and prophylactic treatment.

If a new strain hitches in on fish or coral it refreshes the breeding pool and sort of resets the clock.

That also means you are spending time and resources to carefully QT just to dump a healthy fish in a parasite-infested tank.

I'm not even sure this has been proven but the last point is enough to keep me from trying it. That's why I'm going eradication vs. management.

That's why I'm questioning the validity of what I've read in those articles. I want to be certain I go eradication successfully. It's been over a year since anything has entered my tank that has not been QT'd(coral/Inverts) and no new fish in a year. I've never had signs of Ich. I'm upgrading and trying to figure out if I need to do a full QT on all current inhabitants before new tank. There really isn't much information about the long term sustainability of Ich strains that I can find except "10-11 months" or "it stays in the system indefinitely"

 

[ngoodermuth]

That's why I'm questioning the validity of what I've read in those articles. I want to be certain I go eradication successfully. It's been over a year since anything has entered my tank that has not been QT'd(coral/Inverts) and no new fish in a year. I've never had signs of Ich. I'm upgrading and trying to figure out if I need to do a full QT on all current inhabitants before new tank. There really isn't much information about the long term sustainability of Ich strains that I can find except "10-11 months" or "it stays in the system indefinitely"

Personally, I think you'd be ok at this point if you've never seen any signs of it. I mean, a year since the last fish is a pretty long time.

Although, a few weeks of observational QT might give the new tank some time to settle in and level out, and keep the livestock safe if there are any ammonia spikes from stirring everything up. It could be useful.