Can a small WC cause STN in SPS Corals ?

[Newb_reefer1]

Hello R2R family,

I bought a colony of grape juice off a fellow reefer about a week ago & it seemed to be fine in the DT for the last 5 days. The first three days it was a very bright green color but no PE and the fourth & 5th days it seemed to be browning out a bit but the polyps were actually fully extended. I did some research on the topic and most people were saying it was from excess nutrients in the system or too little light. I run a 250w metal halide in 14k & I tend to keep my water very clean, so I ruled that aspect from the equation. Parameters have been relatively stable since I added the colony. I feed very heavily a mix of frozen mysis and pellets twice a day & export just as heavily. I’ve been testing the big three daily since I added it to get a grasp on its consumption but my question is can a small water change ( 5g ) alter my parameters enough to cause STN on the colony ? I first noticed the necrosis last night but it only seemed to be on the underside of heavily shaded branches, so I figured it was a natural event. Fast forward to this morning and I could see the flesh melting off in some areas. The only other change I made to the system was the addition of ROX 0.8 carbon in a media bag. This one has me stumped did I just get unlucky ? Is it time to frag it up or should I just leave it be and hope for a comeback ?

Day 1 in tank :

This Morning :

 

[gbru316]

1. What are the parameters, exactly?
2. what’s the tank volume?
3. How did the lighting change between sellers tank and yours?
4. What is the difference in alkalinity between sellers tank and yours?
5. How old is the tank? Those rocks look really clean.


if I had to guess, seller and you keep very different alkalinity levels. But that’s purely a guess without more information.

 

[Dburr1014]

Hello R2R family,

I bought a colony of grape juice off a fellow reefer about a week ago & it seemed to be fine in the DT for the last 5 days. The first three days it was a very bright green color but no PE and the fourth & 5th days it seemed to be browning out a bit but the polyps were actually fully extended. I did some research on the topic and most people were saying it was from excess nutrients in the system or too little light. I run a 250w metal halide in 14k & I tend to keep my water very clean, so I ruled that aspect from the equation. Parameters have been relatively stable since I added the colony. I feed very heavily a mix of frozen mysis and pellets twice a day & export just as heavily. I’ve been testing the big three daily since I added it to get a grasp on its consumption but my question is can a small water change ( 5g ) alter my parameters enough to cause STN on the colony ? I first noticed the necrosis last night but it only seemed to be on the underside of heavily shaded branches, so I figured it was a natural event. Fast forward to this morning and I could see the flesh melting off in some areas. The only other change I made to the system was the addition of ROX 0.8 carbon in a media bag. This one has me stumped did I just get unlucky ? Is it time to frag it up or should I just leave it be and hope for a comeback ?

Day 1 in tank :

This Morning :

A 5 gallon water change in a 10 gallon tank, yes.
A 5 gallon water change in 100 gallon system, no.
Yes please list all parameters that you know, how old are the lights?
Do you know what lighting it came from? And how far from the surface is it now, or do you know the par? Do you have other SPS? How long has your system been up?

 

[Newb_reefer1]

1. What are the parameters, exactly?
2. what’s the tank volume?
3. How did the lighting change between sellers tank and yours?
4. What is the difference in alkalinity between sellers tank and yours?
5. How old is the tank? Those rocks look really clean.


if I had to guess, seller and you keep very different alkalinity levels. But that’s purely a guess without more information.

1. Alk 9 , Cal 425 , Mag 1340 I’m gonna have my LFS test my water for phosphates today since I don’t have a test kit for that
2. Total water after displacement is approx 43-45 gallons
3. My tank MH seller had LED I believe
4. Unknown
5. DT has been set up since the 15th I might get some flak for this but it’s not my first rodeo… 3 fish went in same day as setup and I’ve added another 7 since with no losses. Rock was cooking in a bin with heater, power head & SW for atleast a month and a half prior to goin in the DT.

 

[Dburr1014]

1. Alk 9 , Cal 425 , Mag 1340 I’m gonna have my LFS test my water for phosphates today since I don’t have a test kit for that
2. Total water after displacement is approx 43-45 gallons
3. My tank MH seller had LED I believe
4. Unknown
5. DT has been set up since the 15th I might get some flak for this but it’s not my first rodeo… 3 fish went in same day as setup and I’ve added another 7 since with no losses. Rock was cooking in a bin with heater, power head & SW for atleast a month and a half prior to goin in the DT.

#5 is most likely the culprit.
Sounds like your first tank. SPS is really unforgiving on parameters moving around. Think of it this way, they are in a huge body of water and it takes a heck of a lot to make that move. This particular SPS is probably not on the easy scale.
Also have you added any kind of bacteria to your tank? If not, I would probably get some doesn't matter what kind just put dose it into your tank a couple of weeks and try and easy SPS or even an easy LPS.

EDIT: sorry I misread, you said this not your first rodeo. But as it stands I would probably still add some bacteria and try and easy your SPS or LPS and see how that does in a couple of weeks after a bacteria has been in.

 

[madlos123]

Yeap #5 paired with #3 not a good combo. Same thing happened to me except only lost most of tester monti. I was not able to make any coral happy until I had some detritus/organics for the coral to consume to recover from the LED to MH light change.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

A 5 gallon water change in a 10 gallon tank, yes.
A 5 gallon water change in 100 gallon system, no.
Yes please list all parameters that you know, how old are the lights?
Do you know what lighting it came from? And how far from the surface is it now, or do you know the par? Do you have other SPS? How long has your system been up?

How about a 5g WC in a 50g tank lol ?

I took the tank down with about 6 months use on the bulb and it sat unused for a good few years… didn’t think to check on that but if it was leaking UV radiation I think the coral would have been toast day 1.

Par is unknown but my fixture sits 5” above the water line with the tips of the colony 5.5” under the water line. If I had to guess I’d say somewhere in the mid 300’s, the MH is a 250w DE bulb.

Only been running since the 15th no other coral

 

[gbru316]

Ammonia, nitrate?

I see a bunch of dry rock in the photos - how much of the rock is live?

what was your nitrogen cycle process?


you’ve added 10 fish and one of the more difficult species of coral less than 2 weeks after adding water, in a small water volume that has barely completed cycling (if it even has).

Not having any die-off yet isn’t a marker of health or success.

I fear that you’re rushing the process and it’s going to catch up to you — if it hasn’t started already with the acro.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

#5 is most likely the culprit.
Sounds like your first tank. SPS is really unforgiving on parameters moving around. My alk was only being consumed @ a rate of .2 to .3 DKH daily
Think of it this way, they are in a huge body of water and it takes a heck of a lot to make that move. This particular SPS is probably not on the easy scale. I would say that is an accurate assessment

Also have you added any kind of bacteria to your tank? If not, I would probably get some doesn't matter what kind just put dose it into your tank a couple of weeks and try and easy SPS or even an easy LPS. No I was told adding bacteria could essentially restart the cycle. My water tests @ 0 ammonia 0 nitrite & nitrate 2ppm the day after adding first 3 Green Chromis Phosphate is unknown for now.

EDIT: sorry I misread, you said this not your first rodeo. But as it stands I would probably still add some bacteria and try and easy your SPS or LPS and see how that does in a couple of weeks after a bacteria has been inNo bacteria was
What brand would you recommend ? Dr Tim’s seems to want me to dose ammonia which I don’t want to do at this point only other one I’ve used is biospira but I’ve heard good things about microbacter7 ?

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Ammonia, nitrate?

I see a bunch of dry rock in the photos - how much of the rock is live?

what was your nitrogen cycle process?


you’ve added 10 fish and one of the more difficult species of coral less than 2 weeks after adding water, in a small water volume that has barely completed cycling (if it even has).

Not having any die-off yet isn’t a marker of health or success.

I fear that you’re rushing the process and it’s going to catch up to you — if it hasn’t started already with the acro.

All the rock should be live by now its been more than a month and a half in saltwater. Cycle Started with a RODI rinse/scrub of dry rock added biospira & “fed” the tub pellets everyday the first week, then just let it sit with a pump & heater. Did two 50% water changes one two weeks in and the other at the end of first month. Tests showed 0 ammonia & nitrite in the tub on the day of transfer. Threw away water in the bin and used all new water from LFS, Used live sand & Added two bottles of tiger pods & a 3” frag disc fully encrusted with coralline and other critters from LFS on day 1. I may have gotten a little crazy with fish addition I won’t argue there but I feel like I have put enough planning into this tank setup for a long enough time frame that shouldn’t be an issue for me at least… as for the sps colony that might not have been the smartest move, but the price was too good to pass up and I do enjoy a good Challenge !

 

[gbru316]

Biology doesn’t care about how much planning you put into the tank.

you started with the least biologically diverse setup possible, attempted to band-aid it with bottled bacteria and pods, jumped in head first with fish, then added one of the most challenging types of coral.

if you’re trying to jump start a tank, you need 100% live rock. The stuff you buy wet, that’s been submerged for years. The stuff that’s already populated with pods and bacteria and algae and whatever other microflora and micro

you mentioned that this isn’t your first rodeo. And that might be true. It might also be true that your prior experience gave you the impression that because you have experience, you could deftly avoid the newbie mistakes.

that doesn’t appear to be the case. How do I know? Because I was you a few months ago. 25 years of on and off experience should’ve been enough to kickstart a tank right into high gear, right?

take a step back, slow down, and enjoy the process instead of trying to skip ahead to a mature reef. There’s not much you can do to speed it up, anyway. You’re still going to get an ugly stage starting in the next few weeks (amplified by using dry rock). You’re still going to have to deal with that, while also keeping nutrients stable at levels acceptable for SPS. And don’t bottom out that phosphate with GFO else you could end up with dinoflagellates.

as for your acro, you might want to frag the parts that are still good, and make sure your water is both adequate and stable.

 

[bobnicaragua]

Halides are usually closer to 12” off the water line. I don’t remember ever seeing 5”.

I would raise your halides and focus on adding mature rock and substrate from established tanks.

 

[X-37B]

Dead rock in a tub for 1.5 months is not live rock.
Dead rock with bottled bacteria, new system, coral 10.5" away from 250 halides, is not a recipe for success, imo.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Biology doesn’t care about how much planning you put into the tank.

you started with the least biologically diverse setup possible, attempted to band-aid it with bottled bacteria and pods, jumped in head first with fish, then added one of the most challenging types of coral.

if you’re trying to jump start a tank, you need 100% live rock. The stuff you buy wet, that’s been submerged for years. The stuff that’s already populated with pods and bacteria and algae and whatever other microflora and micro

you mentioned that this isn’t your first rodeo. And that might be true. It might also be true that your prior experience gave you the impression that because you have experience, you could deftly avoid the newbie mistakes.

that doesn’t appear to be the case. How do I know? Because I was you a few months ago. 25 years of on and off experience should’ve been enough to kickstart a tank right into high gear, right?

take a step back, slow down, and enjoy the process instead of trying to skip ahead to a mature reef. There’s not much you can do to speed it up, anyway. You’re still going to get an ugly stage starting in the next few weeks (amplified by using dry rock). You’re still going to have to deal with that, while also keeping nutrients stable at levels acceptable for SPS. And don’t bottom out that phosphate with GFO else you could end up with dinoflagellates.

as for your acro, you might want to frag the parts that are still good, and make sure your water is both adequate and stable.

Well you pretty much hit the nail on the head… I was unaware that my test kits have been expired for almost 3 YEARS… yikes. Test results from the LFS showed highly elevated levels of nitrite and nitrate ( purple & orange respectively) so I guess I didn’t beat a cycle like I thought, happens to the best of us. Just did a 50% water change on the tank to bring down those levels and bought some seachem stability to help with the new tank issues. I truly appreciate everyone for their responses and opinions but it seems like I jumped the gun on this one big time. I cut the largest portions i could from the colony out already and dropped it off at my LFS, the owner is a cool guy and he offered to nurse it back to health as best he could until my tank is ready. I’m going to be cutting all the rest of the colony @ 1” to half inchers & try to save what branches haven’t been affected yet. if anyone that posted would like one lmk I’ll give it to you guys free of charge as a thank you for the brutal insight p.s name is Reef Ready Grape Juice from Battle Corals

 

[Newb_reefer1]

Dead rock in a tub for 1.5 months is not live rock.
Dead rock with bottled bacteria, new system, coral 10.5" away from 250 halides, is not a recipe for success, imo.

The lights were about twice as high originally but I brought them way down after reading browning out could be from low light intensity, I don’t have a par meter so I kinda just eye balled it based on the shimmer.

Bad move on my part but I was under the impression my water chemistry was where it needed to be when it was in fact nowhere near where it needed to be. Lesson learned there is no such thing as an instant tank unfortunately, but none the less I have accepted this L and will move forward with more discernment & patience

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

The lights were about twice as high originally but I brought them way down after reading browning out could be from low light intensity, I don’t have a par meter so I kinda just eye balled it based on the shimmer.

Bad move on my part but I was under the impression my water chemistry was where it needed to be when it was in fact nowhere near where it needed to be. Lesson learned there is no such thing as an instant tank unfortunately, but none the less I have accepted this L and will move forward with more discernment & patience

There is too such thing as instant tanks, you must not know these guys..

 

[Tamberav]

The tank is too new... you can test your parameters all you want but that won't help you biologically. There is so much we are still trying to understand... bacterial communities are a part of healthy acropora and a major food source.

 

[Newb_reefer1]

DID SOMEBODY SAY CHOP SHOP ?!?

 

[polyppal]

5. DT has been set up since the 15th I might get some flak for this but it’s not my first rodeo… 3 fish went in same day as setup and I’ve added another 7 since with no losses. Rock was cooking in a bin with heater, power head & SW for atleast a month and a half prior to goin in the DT.

Nope. This is your problem, SPS in a week old reef with livestock is a recipe for failure. Cooking it for a month isn’t going to fix that or dramatically affect anything other than maybe your nitrogen cycle

 

[polyppal]

There is too such thing as instant tanks, you must not know these guys..

Just trow some plastic corals and 3/4 sharks in there and you good ta go!