can carbon dose help detox ammonia during acclimation

[joseph.timbs]

Can a can carbon dose like bacto balance (only thing I have that could potentially work) help detox ammonia during acclimation in bag of fish shipped overnight? Just lost a Scott’s fairy during acclimation last week drip acclimating. I know wrasses take shipping badly but I’m considering temp acclimating then open the bag plop and drop. What are some products that you recommend to help if I try drip again?

 

[bluemon]

You should definitely not drip acclimate most fish that were shipped over mail.

And a “carbon dose” of bacteria will not do anything in that short a time.

Also that’s not what carbon dosing is. Carbon dosing doses carbon sources for bacteria to consume.

Edit: I was unaware of what bacto balance was. It is indeed a carbon source. But my point stands that carbon dosing does nothing but drop pH or drop salinity, both counterintuitive to acclimation

You can use an Ammonia blocker like Prime, but you have to make sure the water doesn’t contain copper first

 

[mcarroll]

I would strongly suggest reading the Sustainable Aquatics white paper on acclimation:

http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

 

[joseph.timbs]

I would strongly suggest reading the Sustainable Aquatics white paper on acclimation:

http://www.sustainableaquatics.com/docs/Acclimation-White-Paper.docx

Got ya. Thanks. I could use an update on current acclimation suggestion/technique.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree with the no drip acclimation since the raised pH makes the ammonia more toxic. But answering the original question, I would not presume that one can get ammonia consumed fast enough to be a benefit during the short time of acclimation. One could theoretically lower the pH to protect fish such as with a small amount of vinegar which reduces free ammonia instantly, but I personally would not go that route and do not know if that introduces other issues, such as reduced O2.

 

[p1u5h13r4m24]

I just wanted to add that if you’re going to temp acclimated and open the bag be sure not to put bag water into your tank. Many fish stores will use additives such as copper in their water to keep fish healthy.

 

[BryanM]

I just wanted to add that if you’re going to temp acclimated and open the bag be sure not to put bag water into your tank. Many fish stores will use additives such as copper in their water to keep fish healthy.

Also, I just don't trust LFS water anyway.

I always transfer to some sort of container and usually net them out of that and in to the tank.

 

[joseph.timbs]

I agree with the no drip acclimation since the raised pH makes the ammonia more toxic. But answering the original question, I would not presume that one can get ammonia consumed fast enough to be a benefit during the short time of acclimation. One could theoretically lower the pH to protect fish such as with a small amount of vinegar which reduces free ammonia instantly, but I personally would not go that route and do not know if that introduces other issues, such as reduced O2.

Yeah I think the same, being a wrasse known to be stressed shipping I jw if anyone has some info/product I’m not privy to. I also have thought about not running my refugium gro light and disconnecting the skimmer from Co2 scrubbing media into the intake. My ph is a consistent 8.1, not as high as possible but still over 8 so….

 

[joseph.timbs]

I just wanted to add that if you’re going to temp acclimated and open the bag be sure not to put bag water into your tank. Many fish stores will use additives such as copper in their water to keep fish healthy.

Yeah I’ve been in the hobby 25 years, not been a perfect 25 either. I’ve had a lesson or two with carelessly adding lfs/vendor water but mostly petco’s. Petco’s is such a no no, big noob mistake I’m well past. Tomorrow I’m going to leave it up to the condition the wrasse arrives in before deciding net and plop or quick acclimation. Don’t think I’ll drip either way.

 

[joseph.timbs]

Yeah I think the same, being a wrasse known to be stressed shipping I jw if anyone has some info/product I’m not privy to. I also have thought about not running my refugium gro light and disconnecting the skimmer from Co2 scrubbing media into the intake. My ph is a consistent 8.1, not as high as possible but still over 8 so….

What about if you forced a tube into the bag not opening the bag, making the ammonia toxic? I know this is probably overthinking it but theoretically it should work, shouldn’t it?

 

[joseph.timbs]

What about if you forced a tube into the bag not opening the bag, making the ammonia toxic? I know this is probably overthinking it but theoretically it should work, shouldn’t it?

I just lowered aquarium ph to 7.8 a few hours before. The Scott’s wrasse came in looking healthy in the bag. I temp acclimated, netted and put in. Was out and about within minutes and ate like a pig 30 minutes later.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

What about if you forced a tube into the bag not opening the bag, making the ammonia toxic? I know this is probably overthinking it but theoretically it should work, shouldn’t it?

The problem is CO2 leaving the water, raising pH and ammonia toxicity. What is the purpose of this tube? If it is to let O2 in, it will let CO2 out.

 

[joseph.timbs]

The problem is CO2 leaving the water, raising pH and ammonia toxicity. What is the purpose of this tube? If it is to let O2 in, it will let CO2 out.

Yeah the idea was to insert ammo-lock or whatever it’s called or some other product while the bag is still keeps it “seal” not allowing anything in or out but I was skeptical because while it’s still sealed the ammonia still hasn’t become toxic. But was thinking maybe you could prep the water er before the water is fully exposed when the bag is opened and ammonia toxicity wouldn’t hit the same peak/intensity level that F’s up the gills.

 

[joseph.timbs]

Yeah the idea was to insert ammo-lock or whatever it’s called or some other product while the bag is still keeps it “seal” not allowing anything in or out but I was skeptical because while it’s still sealed the ammonia still hasn’t become toxic. But was thinking maybe you could prep the water er before the water is fully exposed when the bag is opened and ammonia toxicity wouldn’t hit the same peak/intensity level that F’s up the gills.

The problem is CO2 leaving the water, raising pH and ammonia toxicity. What is the purpose of this tube? If it is to let O2 in, it will let CO2 out.

I shouldn’t have said tube, meant just a way to add or insert something for ammonia detox into the bag without letting Neither O2 in or Co2 out.

 

[bluemon]

Yeah the idea was to insert ammo-lock or whatever it’s called or some other product while the bag is still keeps it “seal” not allowing anything in or out but I was skeptical because while it’s still sealed the ammonia still hasn’t become toxic. But was thinking maybe you could prep the water er before the water is fully exposed when the bag is opened and ammonia toxicity wouldn’t hit the same peak/intensity level that F’s up the gills.

The problem is that you cant use ammonia locking problems if there is copper in the water.

And many places run low amount of copper in the water, where if you introduce prime, can make the water dangerous.

So in this theoretical situation, you would have to make a hole without exposing it to air, then syringe up the water, test the said water for copper without letting air get in the hole, then administer prime if copper is 0, or just go back to the dumping method if there is copper

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yeah the idea was to insert ammo-lock or whatever it’s called or some other product while the bag is still keeps it “seal” not allowing anything in or out but I was skeptical because while it’s still sealed the ammonia still hasn’t become toxic. But was thinking maybe you could prep the water er before the water is fully exposed when the bag is opened and ammonia toxicity wouldn’t hit the same peak/intensity level that F’s up the gills.

There is NO useful product that will detoxify ammonia except by lowering pH.

 

[joseph.timbs]

There is NO useful product that will detoxify ammonia except by lowering pH.

Ok, but just because they’re doing it by only lowering ph, through the nitrogen cycle, doesn’t mean it couldn’t work does it? I’m all ears as to the reasons it wouldn’t work, Im not trying to challenge your expertise. Just curious. Seems like if it were possible to prep the shipping bag water, for whatever amount of time before opening, . Like you or someone else said earlier, I agree that I don’t think it would be rapid enough to prevent toxicity once opened but maybe it could lessen the eventual ammonia spike? Idk.