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I'm not actually running any PO4 absorbants. The only thing I have in there is a bag of chemipure elite that's been sitting in my sump for about two months now(can't reach it without taking some stuff apart so it's staying there so far. I've greatly reduced my dosing but have yet to really see ca & alk come down. As of Monday I am at 8.9/460/1340. I've been focusing on feeding more heavily and I think I'm seeing some positive changes in the one acro that's been doing decently. Base is starting to color up a bit (green for now) and looks like it's beginning to spread out over the epoxy I used to mount it. My green slimer though still looks very unhappy. Further tissue recession and some browning.
Your system is still pretty new, how much live rock is in your sump? I had a very similar situation on my system, added more live rock (started with 100 pounds of dry rock, then added 45 pounds of live rock in 139 gallon system after 7 months). Then dosed Brightwell Microbactor7 for 2 weeks to add additional bacteria. My coralline and Montipora took off as a result. Read Mike Paletta's article on ReefBuilders about his 18 month old Elos 160 and adding live rock.
https://reefbuilders.com/2017/07/08/revisiting-my-elos-tank-after-18-months/
g5flier, I think you hit the nail on the head. I can't tell you how many times in the past couple of months I have seen posts almost identical to the OP. And the running theme through out most of them is the use of some amount of dead rock in the system. I myself am experiencing very similar issues, fish and nems happy, sps sad even the couple zoas I have in my tank aren't super thrilled (open but not extended, and certainly not reproducing). While I didn't used live rock, I used from from an existing tank of mine that had been essentially left to die (the rock that is) when it became completely invested with grape caulerpa. When the caulerpa was finally gone the rock was stark white, no sign of coralline, no spones, no other macro, nothing. For all intents and purpose it was dead When i started up my new tank, I just transferred the old now clean rock over and started up (See picture below for rock right after the transfer). At this point the tank has been running for 9 months. Any SPS i have ever tried to put in this tank will look good of a couple of days, then the polpys will close up, and the tissue will start peeling from the skeleton. I have been scratching my head and trying to figure out what is going on for months. Mind you I am not a novice. I have been keeping salt fish and corals for probably close to 15 years. I am totally on board with you this is a biodiversity thing. Reefs are very complex ecosystems.
Now I will add a small wrinkle to the story.... I have actually been able to save sps frags that have initially been placed in my main system and took a turn down hill to the point of some serious tissue loss. And how did I do this..... I transferred them to my small 15 gallon bare bottom frag tank that contains zero rock beyond the couple pieces that frags are mounted to. This system is completely isolated, just 15 gallons of water. What is interesting is that I can take a frag that is looking not so good and place it in there and with hours the polys are back out the coral is happy. SPS actually thrive in this tank, new frags are encrusting within days and so far I am getting excellent growth. Why it works so well i don't know. And it certainly doesn't support the biodiversity argument.
But what if we think about it as a numbers game..... the ratio of mirco fauna to inhabitable surfaces. Is it possible that if you have a low level of mico fauna and a high "inhabitable" surface area of substrate (rock, stand, etc) there is some period of "colonization" that occurs that creates an unstable environment. Now I am not talking bacterial necessarily, I am talking about all the of other things. Bacteria should spread to every surface in an aquarium very quickly. In this theory it wouldn't be the lack of creatures, it would be the actual expansion of these creatures that is actually causing the issue, and once you reach some critical mass where the actual colonization has leveled off or isn't expanding things start working. Which bring us back to the barren frag tank.... and why it works.... there is no other creatures trying to colonize the tank, so the "balance" has been reached. Could this all be complete BS.... sure, but it does seem to explain why one of my systems works and one of my systems doesn't and why using dead rock that has been seeded seems to take much longer time to support SPS than a tank that is filled with true live from with its surfaces covered with critters.
Would love to hear peoples thoughts.....
Yeah, I'd also love some details. I have an empty tank, extra lights, and some powerheads. If I can fill this tank up with nsw and throw the struggling frags in there it would be awesome of I could get them to recover.This is a very interesting statement. Can you expand on your frag system? i.e.- how long it's been up, filtration method, etc.
This is a very interesting statement. Can you expand on your frag system? i.e.- how long it's been up, filtration method, etc.
What's your water change regiment on that? I'd consider setting up my old tank similarly but I don't really want to put any fish in. Other than that I have almost literally the exact same pieces of equipment hanging around. 20L, black box led, hob skimmer, aquaclear 70. Do you consider having a bioload via the fish to be essential to this?
Thank you for that. That's very interesting how sps and acros thrive in your frag tank. I would think such large volume water changes would swing nutrient and alk levels so much that it would cause instability. But in your case, no, your corals love it. And it's also a very young tank. Almost everything goes against prevailing theory as to keeping acros thriving and growing (small water volume, young, sparse biodiversity). It's things like this when I read them that cause me the "what the...?" moments. There is something happening (or not happening) in your frag tank that sps like. I'm dying to know WHAT that something is!Sure thing.... I knew I was going to get asked that question, so I probably should have taken the time up front to fill in those details.
15 gallon bare bottom tank (No rockwork, egg crate frag rack and some PVC pipe for the fish (1 clarkii 1 damsel to hide in)
No sump
Water Movement
2 Jebao PP-4
Lighting
OceanRevive 120W Chinese Black Box LED (http://oceanrevivellc.com/goods.php?id=21)
Protein Skimmer
HOB AquaC Remora
Filtration
Marineland Penguin Power Filter with Biowheel
As a contrast my main tank set up is as follows:
90 gallon Marineland RR glass display tank
30 gallon sump divided into 3 section (Skimmer, return, and fuge)
Water Movement:
Ecotech Vectra M1 return pump
2x Ecotech Vortech MP40 QuiteDrives
Lighting:
4x Exotech XR15Pro Gen 4
Protein Skimmer:
Skimx Monzter SM161
Extras:
Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Lite
Digital Aquatics ATO (with Bulk Reef Supply 50 mL/min top off doser)
Trigger Systems ATO 10 Gallon Reservoir
Bulk Reef Supply 1.1 ml/min dosing pumps (for BRS Two Part)
500 watt Finnex TH Deluxe Titanium Heating Element (controlled by Reef Keeper)
BRS Biopellet Reactor
BRS Mini Carbon Reactor
The frag tank has been since around August or Sept I don't know exactly (so maybe three months at the most). I have a variety of different SPS in there, including Disney (which is growing like a weed), WWC Pink Passion, Starburst Monti to name a few. I also have some zoas, chalices, euphilia. All of which are growing and happy.
I used the same source RO and salt mix for this tank and keep the parameters between the two as aligned as possible. The only major difference in the maintenance is that I do a 67% (10 gallon) water change on the frag tank once a week, though i don't know if it is totally needed. I was originally doing this because i wasn't dosing any supplements on a daily basis. I am now trying to stay a little more on top of my Big 3 (Alk, CA, Mg) which I am hand dosing at this time but am going to be moving to a dosing pump in the next couple of days.