Carbon dosing and Zero PO4

[Fastpitch]

In an effort to lower 80+ nitrates in a 150 gallon FOWLR, I started dosing NOPOX with Vibrant and MB7. (I had both Vibrant and MB7 on hand and figured why not do both to maximize diversity) Previous to NOPOX dosing, my PO4 levels were always .03 or climbing and I managed that with GFO.

However, ever since I started NOPOX my PO4 levels have flatlined at zero. Since a stable PO4 is important to maintain, I started dosing NEOPHOS at 20+ml per day now for about three weeks. But I have not seen a dent in my tested PO4 level of zero. I'll start with a dose 20ml of PO4 in the morning, test about an hour later, and see .14. But by next morning PO4 is back to zero. I have seen similar experiences on these forums and the advice tends to be - "continue dosing PO4 and levels will rise after rock and sand stop absorption". However, there is no bottom I can see in sight after dosing around 500 mls of PO4 over time.

So what I am experiencing right now is that carbon dosing is effective with PO4 reduction but has done nothing for NO3. As fast as I add PO4, my tanks consumes it. But this is totally contrary to conventional wisdom.

So I am left wondering if the types of bacteria I am dosing is the cause of all this? There really is no guidance what these bacteria in a bottle products do and what effects they have.

Any thoughts, ideas, commentary appreciated.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Is there a reason you are concerned with the elevated nitrates? Algae?

 

[Fastpitch]

Is there a reason you are concerned with the elevated nitrates? Algae?

100 NO3 cant be good. I suspect it as a root cause for HLLE in my tank.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Being so far out of balance maybe look into a different way of removing nitrate until you can get the N to P ratio closer to be able to maintain a steady NoPox dose but if you continue with 0 Phosphate your probably going to fuel something worse with the nopox

 

[Fastpitch]

Being so far out of balance maybe look into a different way of removing nitrate until you can get the N to P ratio closer to be able to maintain a steady NoPox dose but if you continue with 0 Phosphate your probably going to fuel something worse with the nopox

Never had cyano, dinos, bubble etc. And no signs if it either.

Not saying they could not emerge since this hobby tends to keep you humble.

 

[Orito]

you known vibrant isn't bacteria right?

 

[Fastpitch]

you known vibrant isn't bacteria right?

According to the manufacturer it is:

Underwater Creations Inc. | Vibrant Liquid Aquarium Cleaner

Vibrant is a revolutionary liquid aquarium cleaner developed by scientists and the professionals at Underwater Creations, Inc.

www.uwcmn.com

 

[Orito]

According to the manufacturer it is:

Underwater Creations Inc. | Vibrant Liquid Aquarium Cleaner

Vibrant is a revolutionary liquid aquarium cleaner developed by scientists and the professionals at Underwater Creations, Inc.

www.uwcmn.com

Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

It does not appear to be what UWC claims. Data clearly suggest it is an algaecide identical to Algaefix (see thread below) IMO, this as a very serious breach of trust from a company that has insisted it is not an algaecide. It is also a clear breach of the Reef2Reef terms of service (about...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[14 foot reef]

You will want to search vibrant on this forum. Its an Algaecide...Lots of controversy here on that product.

Look into Tropic Marins approach to balancing NO3 and PO4 with its different bacteria blends. Watch Lou's speech he just did at Macna .....

 

[Fastpitch]

Warning: Use Vibrant at your own risk

It does not appear to be what UWC claims. Data clearly suggest it is an algaecide identical to Algaefix (see thread below) IMO, this as a very serious breach of trust from a company that has insisted it is not an algaecide. It is also a clear breach of the Reef2Reef terms of service (about...

www.reef2reef.com

Wow!

Something to look into.

My original problem remains. What is going on with NOPOX and zero PO4. Maybe MB7 is consuming all the PO4?

Something in my tank is consuming it.........

 

[Fastpitch]

You will want to search vibrant on this forum. Its an Algaecide...Lots of controversy here on that product.

Look into Tropic Marins approach to balancing NO3 and PO4 with its different bacteria blends. Watch Lou's speech he just did at Macna .....

I did look into a little of this. But my tank is FOWLR so I have no corals to consume NO3. And tropic marin products all assume reef aquariums.

 

[Blue Cheese]

With nitrates that high,nopox brought it down but the ratio was so out of balance it ran out of phosphate to continue to bring nitrate down,nopox/tank/bacteria brought it down

 

[14 foot reef]

Look into your fish foods as a source then the easiest and most stable way to delete NO3 in a Fish only is a 90-95% water change.
So simple so effective. no chasing number with products. If you remove 90% of the water you will remove 90% of the nitrates, then you can work on slowly balancing out.

 

[Fastpitch]

With nitrates that high,nopox brought it down but the ratio was so out of balance it ran out of phosphate to continue to bring nitrate down,nopox/tank/bacteria brought it down

Good thought. So if I am following right you think I should continue to stay the course and keep up heavy PO4 dosing. I guess that is all I have to go on at this point.

Thanks.

 

[Fastpitch]

Look into your fish foods as a source then the easiest and most stable way to delete NO3 in a Fish only is a 90-95% water change.
So simple so effective. no chasing number with products. If you remove 90% of the water you will remove 90% of the nitrates, then you can work on slowly balancing out.

You are right. ButI decided long ago I was not going to chase NO3 with constant water changes on a 150 gallon tank. I have a life to live also.

 

[czoolander]

you known vibrant isn't bacteria right?

Why all the hate for vibrant? I know lots of reefers that dose daily and have success with the product ?

As for it being an algeacide ? Well i dosed vibrant for months in my tank to remove GHA and it did nothing . So if it is an algeacide it must not be a very good one lol

I did look into a little of this. But my tank is FOWLR so I have no corals to consume NO3. And tropic marin products all assume reef aquariums.

If you are running FOWLR why are you so concerned with nitrate and phosphate levels? The fish will be more than ok with elevated levels of both or bottomed out levels of both

 

[Blue Cheese]

Good thought. So if I am following right you think I should continue to stay the course and keep up heavy PO4 dosing. I guess that is all I have to go on at this point.

Thanks.

No,I think you should find a way to remove nitrates then find a balance at a low carbon dose schedule to maintain both phosphate and nitrate together instead of chasing a bottomed out parameter that’s inevitably going to get you cyano field by nopox

 

[Orito]

Why all the hate for vibrant? I know lots of reefers that dose daily and have success with the product ?

As for it being an algeacide ? Well i dosed vibrant for months in my tank to remove GHA and it did nothing . So if it is an algeacide it must not be a very good one lol



If you are running FOWLR why are you so concerned with nitrate and phosphate levels? The fish will be more than ok with elevated levels of both or bottomed out levels of both

no hate for the product, but if it says it's bacteria and actualy it's an algaecide that can be bought for half the price I think you might mad at the manufacturer

 

[Fastpitch]

No,I think you should find a way to remove nitrates then find a balance at a low carbon dose schedule to maintain both phosphate and nitrate together instead of chasing a bottomed out parameter that’s inevitably going to get you cyano field by nopox

Thanks.

 

[Orito]

Good thought. So if I am following right you think I should continue to stay the course and keep up heavy PO4 dosing. I guess that is all I have to go on at this point.

Thanks.

yes you probably need to dose po4 so the bacteria and carbon can consume it with the no3, if the po4 goes 0 the carbon dosing will stop consuming the no3