Carbon dosing vinegar with kalk

[ScottF]

I am looking into carbon dosing to reduce Nitrates, but I am reluctant to add anything that will lower my pH. I've read posts that suggest that fully saturating vinegar with calcium hydroxide will negate the negative effects on pH.

Is this a viable solution? I already dose my daily evaporation volume of kalkwasser. So, I already have plenty of calcium hydroxide powder on hand.

 

[Garf]

I am looking into carbon dosing to reduce Nitrates, but I am reluctant to add anything that will lower my pH. I've read posts that suggest that fully saturating vinegar with calcium hydroxide will negate the negative effects on pH.

Is this a viable solution? I already dose my daily evaporation volume of kalkwasser. So, I already have plenty of calcium hydroxide powder on hand.

If you are adding kalk from a settled resevoir (via dosing pump) you can put the vinegar in there. PH drop is minimal.

 

[ScottF]

If you are adding kalk from a settled resevoir (via dosing pump) you can put the vinegar in there. PH drop is minimal.

Any down sides to doing this? Do I need to worry about crap growing in my kalk reservoir?

I mix up about 50 gallons of kalk at a time in a 55 gallon brute can which lasts about two weeks. The can is in my garage which is not air conditioned in Miami. Which sadly makes the kalk less potent. I'm guessing it would make it more likely to grow stuff as well.

I haven't really decided yet if I want to carbon dose. Weighing my options and trying to educate myself.

Edit:
I am also concerned about crap growing in the ro tubing running from the vat of kalk in the garage to my Neptune Dos. Running that tubing over my kitchen to the room with the tank was a real pain in the butt. I don't want to have to replace the tubing.

 

[Garf]

Any down sides to doing this? Do I need to worry about crap growing in my kalk reservoir?

I mix up about 50 gallons of kalk at a time in a 55 gallon brute can which lasts about two weeks. The can is in my garage which is not air conditioned in Miami. Which sadly makes the kalk less potent. I'm guessing it would make it more likely to grow stuff as well.

I haven't really decided yet if I want to carbon dose. Weighing my options and trying to educate myself.

Didn't see anything growing in mine, and I went a bit over the top, LOL;

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/exceeding-the-limewater-evaporation-limit.984542/post-11658044

 

[Miami Reef]

Saturated calcium hydroxide with vinegar is viable solution to preventing the low pH effects of carbon dosing. However, it will add some alkalinity and calcium. The extent of that depends on your dose, and it’s not easily calculable.

Bacteria won’t grow in vinegar because it’s too acidic. Neither will it grow in saturated calcium hydroxide because it’s too basic.

The problem occurs when you don’t fully saturate it, leaving the pH somewhere bacteria can readily grow in.

 

[ScottF]

Saturated calcium hydroxide with vinegar is viable solution to preventing the low pH effects of carbon dosing. However, it will add some alkalinity and calcium. The extent of that depends on your dose, and it’s not easily calculable.

Bacteria won’t grow in vinegar because it’s too acidic. Neither will it grow in saturated calcium hydroxide because it’s too basic.

The problem occurs when you don’t fully saturate it, leaving the pH somewhere bacteria can readily grow in.

When you say "saturated calcium hydroxide" are to referring to RODI water saturated with calcium hydroxide or white vinegar saturated with calcium hydroxide.

Obviously based on this statement saturated kalkwasser solution is too basic for bacteria, but I have no idea what the pH is of white vinegar if you dissolve as much calcium hydroxide as possible in it. Is it still acidic? basic?

 

[ScottF]

As I think about it I guess you are saying add the vinegar to the RODI and then saturate it with calcium hydroxide. In this scenario it should be too basic for bacterial growth?

 

[Miami Reef]

It’s technically called saturated calcium hydroxide. You can use vinegar or water. Same thing.

I actually did an experiment and found fully saturated kalkwasser with water is 12.5 pH and saturating it with vinegar gives 12.1 pH.

Pretty cool. Both will inhibit bacteria.

Add enough kalkwasser powder to the vinegar until there is an undissolved portion on the bottom. Dose the clear portion. Adding more vinegar will dissolve the remaining undissolved solids — it doesn’t waste it.

 

[ScottF]

It’s technically called saturated calcium hydroxide. You can use vinegar or water. Same thing.

I actually did an experiment and found fully saturated kalkwasser with water is 12.5 pH and saturating it with vinegar gives 12.1 pH.

Pretty cool. Both will inhibit bacteria.

Add enough kalkwasser powder to the vinegar until there is an undissolved portion on the bottom. Dose the clear portion. Adding more vinegar will dissolve the remaining undissolved solids — it doesn’t waste it.

If I did want to mix a bunch of calcium hydroxide into some vinegar and pour it in to 50 gallons of kalkwasser, of which 6500 mL gets dosed to a 250 gallon reef tank per day, how would someone find a good starting volume of vinegar?

 

[Miami Reef]

How long does your ATO last?

You can add up your vinegar dose of the whole week and add it to your ATO (assuming it lasts a week).

It’s not a perfect method, but good enough. I have a carbon dosing chart. Have you seen it?

 

[Miami Reef]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-vodka-and-vinegar-dosing-charts.1024056/
The charts are at the bottom of the post.

 

[ScottF]

How long does your ATO last?

You can add up your vinegar dose of the whole week and add it to your ATO (assuming it lasts a week).

It’s not a perfect method, but good enough. I have a carbon dosing chart. Have you seen it?

My ATO is 200 gallons. lol.

I have a 200 gallon RODI holding tank in the garage. My Apex will pump water directly from it with a Neptune Dos based on a pair of optical sensors in my sump when I have it enabled, but I have that disabled because all of my top off comes in the form of kalkwasser. I match my kalkwasser dosing to my evaporation.

 

[ScottF]

My ATO

 

[Miami Reef]

I think it would be easier to get a separate dosing pump just for the carbon dosing. You can control the dose better IMO.

 

[ScottF]

I think it would be easier to get a separate dosing pump just for the carbon dosing. You can control the dose better IMO.

So buy a gallon of Publix white vinegar, pour in as much calcium hydroxide as I can get to dissolve and dose 62 mL per day of the solution into my 250 gallon reef tank?

 

[ScottF]

So buy a gallon of Publix white vinegar, pour in as much calcium hydroxide as I can get to dissolve and dose 62 mL per day of the solution into my 250 gallon reef tank?

While reducing alk/calc from my two part and/or kalkwasser as needed.

 

[ScottF]

While reducing alk/calc from my two part and/or kalkwasser as needed.

Another silly question... Does vinegar and calcium hydroxide behave at all like vinegar and sodium bicarbonate? I wouldn't want foam shooting all over my kitchen after dumping a bunch of kalk powder in to some vinegar.

Edit:
As I think about it I guess that the fizz is the carbon in the bicarbonate being released as CO2. So that would be a no.

 

[Miami Reef]

Correct on all accounts.

Another silly question... Does vinegar and calcium hydroxide behave at all like vinegar and sodium bicarbonate? I wouldn't want foam shooting all over my kitchen after dumping a bunch of kalk powder in to some vinegar.

Nope. It doesn’t have that effect. The solution might get a little warm, but that’s about it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I am looking into carbon dosing to reduce Nitrates, but I am reluctant to add anything that will lower my pH. I've read posts that suggest that fully saturating vinegar with calcium hydroxide will negate the negative effects on pH.

Is this a viable solution? I already dose my daily evaporation volume of kalkwasser. So, I already have plenty of calcium hydroxide powder on hand.

Yes, I’ve used that mix before I got a dosing pump to spread out vinegar dosing.

 

[Ken S]

I am on my second week of carbon dosing with vinegar. I had some kalkwasser so I saturated it to a point until it wasn't dissolving fully, then added small amounts of vinegar until there was no more particulate & fully clear. So, I guess this is 100% lime saturated vinegar. I did this because I read it helps minimize the ph swing caused by dosing straight vinegar.

I am also dosing 2-part with Balling C + DIY magnesium. I test Nitrate, Phos, Alk every single day and write it down, old school, even before I started dosing the vinegar solution. I have not seen any increase in Alk at all. Absolutely 0. In fact, it has actually trended down slightly, if anything. Is this normal? Zero increase in ph as well. Again, if anything, it has slightly trended down. I dose the entire amount in the middle of the day over 7 hours.

I know you guys don't have any faith in Ca home tests, but I've been doing Salifert every other day expecting to see some type of increase, even though it may not be an accurate number. Again, zilch, zero, nada. Salifert test kit has shown no sizeable increase with 7 different tests (every other day). Is this also normal? Am I doing something wrong? Both Nitrates & Phosphates have dropped slightly, phosphate moreso. That also has me a bit worried as everything I've read, the opposite should be occurring. On a side note, everything in the tank looks happy & healthy! So that's good!