Carbon Dosing

[ATS]

I am new to carbon dosing and here is my question. I have been using Tropic Marin Elimi-NP for about 5 mo. with no luck. I have a150 gal. tank that has been set up for about 25 plus years with a lot of live rock. My question is if I keep dosing at the max rate will the nitrates and phosphates eventually come down. My nitrates are 65.1 phosphates are 2.50

 

[Dan_P]

I am new to carbon dosing and here is my question. I have been using Tropic Marin Elimi-NP for about 5 mo. with no luck. I have a150 gal. tank that has been set up for about 25 plus years with a lot of live rock. My question is if I keep dosing at the max rate will the nitrates and phosphates eventually come down. My nitrates are 65.1 phosphates are 2.50

The short answer is “no”. It is not uncommon for carbon dosing to stall. Now, let’s go off track a bit.

Your nitrates are not crazy high according to Randy’s model of the universe where 5-50 ppm is OK. Your 65 ppm is just outside that range. Leave it alone for now.

Your phosphate is high by in many world views but so what. Is anything in your system suffering? If not, leave it alone. Also, carbon dosing is not the most effective way to reduce phosphate. GFO and what the cool kids use today, lanthanum chloride, are the two inorganic chemicals that effectively remove phosphate. Be careful. You wouldn’t be the first to screw up your system tampering with phosphate reduction.

By the way your observations of nitrate production by a piece of rock taken from your aquarium are odd. I would not take your inferences too seriously.

A better experiment is to take a sample of aquarium water and carbon dose it and see if nitrate goes down over night or after 48 hours. Use the maximum dose to start with

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It’s not any risk whatsoever to a sump or aquarium after it begins to mix in. If that is truly what they said, they lack chemical understanding.

Perhaps what they meant was to not store it in acrylic, or to not dose it directly onto or against an acrylic wall.

 

[FrugalReeferJon]

I’m going to play devils advocate and I have to ask are you carbon dosing because your nitrate and phosphate numbers on paper are ridiculously high and should be lower according to conventional wisdom? I mean, when I look at the pic of your tank I hardly see any algae and there is a healthy amount of coralline covering your rocks. Call me crazy and out of my mind but I say let your numbers be.

As a side note, there is a current world wide corals video with Victor visiting the home of Maisie Maramot (@maramotreef), reef of the month Feb 2024, and her nitrates and phosphates in the main display are like 53 and 1.2 and the tank is thriving.

 

[ATS]

That’s nonsense. Where did you hear that? I see no reason to use NOpOX, but no organic carbon dosing method will harm an acrylic aquarium unless you put it directly on dry plastic.

Red Sea told you that?
Maybe if it's poured full strength directly on acrylic and let sit there, any alcohol or vodka would d

I’m going to play devils advocate and I have to ask are you carbon dosing because your nitrate and phosphate numbers on paper are ridiculously high and should be lower according to conventional wisdom? I mean, when I look at the pic of your tank I hardly see any algae and there is a healthy amount of coralline covering your rocks. Call me crazy and out of my mind but I say let your numbers be.

As a side note, there is a current world wide corals video with Victor visiting the home of Maisie Maramot (@maramotreef), reef of the month Feb 2024, and her nitrates and phosphates in the main display are like 52 and 1.2 and the tank is thriving.

I think you may be right because the tank is really doing good. I think for now I am going to let it ride. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Uncle99]

I am new to carbon dosing and here is my question. I have been using Tropic Marin Elimi-NP for about 5 mo. with no luck. I have a150 gal. tank that has been set up for about 25 plus years with a lot of live rock. My question is if I keep dosing at the max rate will the nitrates and phosphates eventually come down. My nitrates are 65.1 phosphates are 2.50

That’s very very seasoned rock and a lot of it as well, so having high nitrates is a puzzle to me, unless there’s a messy eater in the tank, or a ton of feed.

In addition to the carbon dose, what other export tools are you using?

Sump, skimmer, rollermat, Fuge…..what’s in the cabinet?

What test kit do you use for both?

 

[ATS]

That’s very very seasoned rock and a lot of it as well, so having high nitrates is a puzzle to me, unless there’s a messy eater in the tank, or a ton of feed.

In addition to the carbon dose, what other export tools are you using?

Sump, skimmer, rollermat, Fuge…..what’s in the cabinet?

What test kit do you use for both?

I have a calcium reactor,kamoer pump for the calcium reactor,filter roll,protein skimmer,heater, main pump,sump and control system to take of all of this.

 

[ATS]

I have a calcium reactor,kamoer pump for the calcium reactor,filter roll,protein skimmer,heater, main pump,sump and control system to take of all of this.

I use HANNA testers

 

[ATS]

I use HANNA testers

I feed flake food and frozen ocean nutrition

 

[Puggz]

Red Sea told you that?
Maybe if it's poured full strength directly on acrylic and let sit there, any alcohol or vodka would do that.

Doesn't isopropyl, vodka and/or vinegar come in plastic bottles?

 

[Jamie814]

I feed flake food and frozen ocean nutrition

Flake food is often high in phosphate.

 

[Jamie814]

Doesn't isopropyl, vodka and/or vinegar come in plastic bottles?

Yes, plastic (Polypropylene) bottles, not acrylic bottles, different materials. Alcohol causes acrylic to craze overtime causing micro cracks and haziness. I would not store carbon dosing liquids in common acrylic dosing containers for reason.

 

[Bruttall]

I feed flake food and frozen ocean nutrition

Try this, cut the amount of flake and frozen in half, for a week and test PO4 again. Watch your fish, the belly will tell you if they are hungry. If the belly doesn't change, you've been over feeding. everyone I know does this so no big deal.
If the belly shrinks then increase food amount back to normal right away. (I haven't seen this happen personally, but you might not be over feeding)

 

[Jimbo327]

You have a lot of rocks, so it is surprising that you have high nitrates. The phosphates will leach out of the rocks, so that'll remain elevated. Either GFO or LC to reduce phosphates, both are effective. Go slow.

Honestly, the corals in your tank is probably used to the high nutrients, and can tolerate it.

Forget the Tropic Marin NP, carbon is carbon, you are just paying a reef premium. I would continue to carbon dose straight vodka. Whatever you are dosing now, I would double it and keep dosing for a few weeks. Put it on a doser so you spread it out throughout the day. Your nitrates and phosphates will drop if your dose is sufficient.

 

[Uncle99]

I have a calcium reactor,kamoer pump for the calcium reactor,filter roll,protein skimmer,heater, main pump,sump and control system to take of all of this.

25 year old rock and multiple exports like you have make it hard for me to believe that nitrates run a consistent 65ppm unless you where dumping in tons of food items, much of which is not being consumed and contributing to the load.

I’m not sure what’s in the carbon dose you use, I’ve only used nopox and in 5 months, from 50ppm to 5ppm, then I slowly discontinued. Just with a skimmer and filter changes every 3 days.

Have you retested using another kit?
Is the vial colour deep red when you put in text?

Hanna is good but not infallible, their CA and MG testers are way off for me.

Salifert does a great job, easy to see 5ppm (super faint pink after 7 minutes) and 50ppm (very red)