We have a 300 gal salt water tank and after a year felt finally ready to add more fish (we have seven chromis that have survived the year). We set up a 75 gal observation tank three weeks ago at which time we put rock that had been in our display tank into a refugium. Two weeks ago we put a few pieces of live rock from the local fish store into the tank. We purchased two benggai cardinals that had been in the local fish store for two weeks as part of a larger group. The whole group appeared healthy. We put the two in the tank last night, they stayed on opposite sides of the tank initially. We placed a 40W bulb in a lamp in the room so they would have dim light. When I peeked at them at 7am and 7:30 they seemed content, six inches from each other in the center of the tank. When my husband entered the room at 8am, one of the cardinals was wedged under a piece of the rock. The other was hiding behind the rock relatively near him. When I moved the rock, the cardinal just lay on the bottom. He had no overt damage, but I did not want to stress him by examining him closer. His color was not as vibrant. A small spot of brownish gelatinous material was near him (size of tip of little finger)(Could have been under rock and not related). He had slow "gasping" respiration. We left them, having to head to work. The tank had 0.25 ammonia last night. Tank ammonia circle monitor looked the same and the temperature has been steady at a little over 80 deg. Wondering what could have gone wrong. Although we have left, wondering if anyone would have intervened and how. Nervous about any future fish as well.
cardinal heartbreak
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evan-beachouse-45
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0.25 ammo can still be harmful to fish if exposed to it for too long. Temp seems a little high, I usually keep my tank around 74-75 degrees. When I was starting out I had mysterious fish death that I think I could link to high temp. This is just my opinion and not necessarily 100% true. Just some hints maybe
jeflen651
Community Member
You can use Seachem Prime in your tank to help protect the fish from the ammonia until you resolve your problem. Several small water changes should help lowering the ammonia. Cardinals are normally pretty aggressive when feeding, if they are eating they will probably be fine. I run my tank temp at 76-78 degrees.
Thank you for your responses. Unfortunately, we found the cardinal dead when we got home. I don't know if it will help, but here is a picture after he was taken out of the tank. The partner is hiding behind the rock, but appears well. Temp 80.6, pH 8.27, ammonia still 0.25 (Salifert), nitrate 5 (Salifert), nitrite 0.015 ppm (Hanna). I lowered the air conditioning in the room, we are in south florida, and opened the glass lid, I also did 4 gal water change. Will continue to do small water changes to get rid of toxins.
We lost the other Cardinal tonight. He seemed timid all day, but I did not see any unusual behavior. Two hours before I found him I saw him swim from one side of tank to the other. He did not eat when offered frozen brine. Temp was 78.8 at midnight. Ammonia barely/?detectable with salifert kit. Not sure what went wrong.
Mel 2038
Active Member
If I understand correctly, you had rock from your display(good), and also live rock from lfs that was two weeks old(not so good). If that is correct, I would say ammonia is probably the culprit. I would say if you would have went with just the rock from the display, you might have been ok. However, when you added live rock from lfs, it started to show some die off , causing some ammonia . This is normal for live rock, and in a mature system of some size, it wouldn't be a problem. With that said, the only (good) bacteria you had (to break down ammonia) was from the rock that came from the display, and that probably wasn't enough. So you take fish that are stressed from a normal transfer, and couple that with the stress and poison of ammonia, and you have conditions that the fish just can't handle. Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope this helps you out. Good luck in the future.
Just be sure the Nitirites and Ammonia are at 0....Nitrates are not very harmful to fish and many FOWLR's run their nitrates into the 100's without fish issues so they will not be an issue at 5. What it sounds like is when you added the "new" live rock, you had the start of a mini-cycle and that needs to finish before you try the fish in the tank again. Just for reference, Ammonia and Nitrites should always be 0 for a cycled tank.
Also, the ammonia alerts are not as accurate as you would want when you are cycling...a cheap API test kit will give you better, consistant results IMO.
Ammonia now down to zero, nitrites 0.009. My husband thought that we should try a few bait shrimp as an experiment of the system. Is there any reason this would not be a good idea? Thank you so much for your help.
Newb73
Valuable Member
I bought 3 and just threw them right in the display.
One wouldn't eat rhe other 2 are fine almost a year later.
I have lost way more fish due to carpet surfing and relocating than anything.
I evem threw an achilles tang in with 3 other tangs and 4 months later they are all fat and happy.
Well....my blue throat jumped out of the tank (even though its mostly covered w a canopy) but other than that no problems.
One wouldn't eat rhe other 2 are fine almost a year later.
I have lost way more fish due to carpet surfing and relocating than anything.
I evem threw an achilles tang in with 3 other tangs and 4 months later they are all fat and happy.
Well....my blue throat jumped out of the tank (even though its mostly covered w a canopy) but other than that no problems.
I assume this was after the tank was cycled though.....
Elysium
Well-Known Member
Nitrites at 0 do indicate that the tank is fully cycled (meaning biological filter is established), but by themselves are not harmful to the fish.
Nitrite
Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite! Unless future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, I do not consider nitrite to be an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.
Nitrite
Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite! Unless future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, I do not consider nitrite to be an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.
Newb73
Valuable Member
Yes. No tangs for the first year.
I am in the "QT kills fish" camp after watching 2 powder blues die in a 90g QT that had been up and running as a system for 5 years and then seeing an achilles tang thrive after throwing him right into a 15 month old 225g display
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