Certified Quarantined Fish Shipped To Your Door...

[Brew12]

We should focusing on regulating the trade such that only healthy fish are allowed to be sold and whatever the resulting price so be it.

Part of the problem is that I don't think hobbyists agree as to what a healthy fish is. If a fish has ich but it is being effectively managed by that fishes immune system, is it healthy? I think so, but I know others would disagree. If a fish has liver damage from 30 days in copper, is that fish healthy? I think so, but others would disagree.

Without being able to define what a "healthy" fish is, figuring out how to enforce selling one would be a huge issue.

 

[Antics]

I'd pay 2x-3x if there is an individual like @Humblefish behind the company. A random sponsor or internet site? No faith to buy anything sight unseen and dump it into my tank.

 

[rushbattle]

I would pay 3x, maybe more depending. It’s not a matter of whether I can quarantine the fish myself: I have many years experience in academics dealing with rearing and growout of fish, though I only have a few pathology courses as that was not my specialty. It’s a matter of having 45 or so contiguous days at home. I travel for work so I cannot be home to monitor the fish properly for the whole stay in the quarantine tank(s).

 

[Chad Sepulvado]

Live aquaria divers den does this already.

 

[dhuynh]

Btw. I think pay 2x 3x or any x time the amount is silly.

A $25 yellow tang would cost the same to qt as a $600 gem tang.

The yellow tang would then cost $75?
And a gem tang would then cost $1800?

How about this:

Document your qt process and make it public. Give your statement on what is quaranteed on a qt'd fish. Then list a QT charge for a fish based on either size, difficulty, or price of fish.

I would NEVER quaranteed for a fish to be disease free in someone else's system. There are just too many unknowns. In my system, I'll hold the fish for months and get them eating pellets and/or frozen food if someone wanted me too.

I think this is an interesting topic and if someone can make money doing it and work out all the logistics, kudos to them. It'll be good for everyone.

 

[ourcoralreef]

Yes i would but i don’t know how that would work
Shipping stresses them out and its my belief most stuff happen from stress

But being able to just drop a fish in yea about 2-3x depending on the fish
And as others have said with a proper guarantee

 

[Salty Lemon]

I think the costs depend on the clientele. If you are looking for a higher class (financially) of customers, you can charge 3-4 times more for a quarantined fish. Now, let's take a middle-class family (for example's sake). They are into reefing but cannot pay for more tanks, storage, or medications in a whole different room so that they can do their own qt. Now, let's take a $75 tang -- I'd be willing to bet a family like this would be willing to pay $150 for a guaranteed quarantine and a warranty, but could not pay $225 (3x) plus continue to pay for general aquarium maintenance and expenses. I don't think most people could pay that. The lower paying clientele will have more problems with their tanks without quarantining or being able to afford a quarantined fish, and may eventually give up reefing after they lose an entire tank to velvet. This means you and all other stores/vendors may lose money. Because if they have healthy tanks, as we all know...they want to keep going bigger and better. Their kids will grow up, they will get a promotion, life will improve -- and if you can help keep their tanks healthy from the beginning (with affordable quarantined fish), you will have life-long customers. Eventually with big tanks.;Smuggrin

 

[scardall]

Some fish I would not pay extra, while the Ich magnet fish I would pay upto twice.

 

[MnFish1]

The current practice to do do copper for 14 days and then observe. I have never heard anyone recommend “months” of copper.

That is one method thats recommended here... And it has failed once. That protocol is great - because it minimizes copper exposure. But - as I've recently learned (communicating with Seachem) - and reading numerous biosecurity protocols - the observation QT should be 90 days - to be effective. Many protocols recommend at least a month of copper (again I am not recommending this)

In any case - the person you quoted I believe is in LFS that use therapeutic copper in all of their tanks all the time. According to Seachem - even low dose copper (.1) affects immunity and multiple organs if used >30 days or so.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

It would depend on who "certified" them.

 

[MnFish1]

Do you think pet stores tell you to come back in 14 days and they will start the copper now? Or do you think they have copper in the whole fish holding tank that the fish is exposed to for the entire time it takes for that fish to sell... I can tell you right now most the ones that say they QT and treat are low salt and low copper from the day the fish arrives to the day it sells...not for 14 days. It could easily be stuck in that stuff for months.

I have looked into this with 4 fish stores in our area. One - uses no copper whatsoever. Another uses copper only to treat something during 'their' 2 week observation period. Another uses therapeutic copper in all of their tanks all of the time (they have great fish - but I won't buy there anymore). Another uses copper but is not 'careful' with the levels. None of the stores has (in this area) heard of he use of low-dose copper either in the supply chain or in their stores (at least in the stores - I can document this because I've checked levels when I've purchased.

 

[lvsuckerfish]

I agree Systems should already be in place for QT fish.

But as others here I have trust issues also. I rather do it myself So I can monitor the fish and corals, then I know what is going on with my live stock. Depending on what the fish is will depending on the size tank I would place it in for qt. I tried to make the fish as comfortable as possible. I will not get into a List of things I do but I would wait for the sales at Petco and get the dollar gallon tanks and set them up in the garage for tangs I would place in a 40g breeder with a HOB filter, heater , and Florescent light. Smaller fish would be in a 20g or 10g tank. All in All it is a cheap way to set it up as a Hobbyist. I had a 240g tank back then so collecting all these fish if something happened would be a nightmare, then finding a spot for all the fish would be even worse.

Right now I have a 50g AIO for Qt in my Pool room for this purpose. I am a victim of I want it now. I will ask a LFS to order a fish and call me when it arrives and I try to pick it up right then to lessen the change of systems and stress. ( from their shipper to them and then to me I like to cut out the middle man if possible. Same as Ordering Online but harder for me to be home during the day to collect the fish. So I rather have them order it and me pick it up from them as I like to keep the local guys in Business for when I need something right away.

 

[Rakie]

3x more for me. Depends on the species too though.

Say you get a chaoti wrasse -- Those retail "dirty" at like $200 on a GREAT day, more like $300+. Additionally, they ship poorly and adapt poorly to tank life... So you buy 2-3 and end up with 1 if you're lucky. With all that in mind, a quarantined, eating, clean, healthy Chaoti wrasse should easily fetch like $900+ Because you're also accounting for the 2-3 that didn't make it, and the months of training to eat and all that.

And for a clean chaoti, $900 seems a little low, frankly. To many, this is one of those "holy grail" fish.

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

When I started reading scientific articles on marine ick and velvet I learned a great deal. One of the probelms is
1.) We still clearly do not understand marine ick or velvet.
2.) it has been shown that in order to effectively kill marine ick or velvet it normally takes the same lethal dosage of copper as what is lethal to kill the fish
3.) marine ick and marine velvet can lay dormant for a period of time, where it’s habitat is ideal.
4.) there is nothing to show signs (medical wise) if the fish is still carrying the parasites or if they are still in the water column. Creating a dye safe to fish and reef systems would be ideal.
5.) studies have shown that these parasites actually affect each species of fish differently.
(This was sourced from the article SRAC southern regional aquaculture center and article name is “Amyloodinium ocellatum an important parasite of cultured marine fish 2011”).

There are several other centers that have taken years to even understand these deadly diseases and we have made very little headway. As of too date (realistically) other than copper that once your fish gets infected by either parasite there is little you can do other than copper. In terms of being realistic, how easy is it to rip down a 240 gallon tank or larger, lets say even a 150. Trying to catch fish isn’t easy with a full reef. Yes we have the fish traps, but they are not stupid. I bought one just to have one and ironically nobody in all of Boise has one. Left it in with nori not one of my fish swam in there even after a week. They avoided it like was literally a death trap.

There is a reason I haven’t not added any fish into my system, it’s because I won’t take the risk. Even corals now go through what I can do to try and prevent anything. The only way I know for sure that works is by doing everything possible to prevent it from infecting your tank. Knowing these can lay dormant, where they can come back in a better habitat, prevents me from adding fish to my current system.

 

[Aardvark1134]

You can say nothing but copper will work but it just isn't true. I refuse to use copper and have not had any issue getting fish healthy and having them stay healthy. My meds of choice are paraguard, metoplex, kanaplex, and prazipro. It's been over a decade since I used copper and I have never run into anything that I could not fix without copper.

 

[Salty Lemon]

Revtree,

Funny you mention this we were just talking about this the other day at the store. With all the extra space we have, we were considering trying this for some of our locals. Curious what others think.

If you could ship to AZ, I'd be interested.

 

[alton]

It is sad but in 30 years only two fish stores in the San Antonio area quarantined there fish, and neither one is in business today because the public did not want to pay for the additional charge.

 

[Rcpilot]

Should be a standard in the hobby that retailers QT and ensure they are selling healthy pets.

When you buy a puppy or a cat from a breeder or even Petco, it's had at least 1 round of shots, and it's been treated for worms and internal parasites.

Why do we not demand the same standards of retailers for our underwater pets?

Okay, so it costs money. Roll it into the cost and sell me a healthy animal. I don't like the idea of being charged an additional fee to ensure the animal is already healthy.

 

[dhuynh]

Here's an idea...

Vote with your money. Only buy from places that QT'd their fish.

How many people hate Petco and still go there when they have a sale?

I personally like my Petco.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Or vote with your wallet by not buying from any place you know uses copper on healthy fish just because they dump it in on all their fish.