Certified Quarantined Fish Shipped To Your Door...

[dhuynh]

I QT all my fish before I sell them.

If one of my QT'd fish develops ich when the buyer put it into their system, where did the ich come from?

It wasn't in my system and wasn't on the fish.

The buyer's tank didn't show any sign of ich.

Then the blaming game start. And it's worse when the buyer feel like they paid for a QT'd fish.

I don't charge extra for a QT'd fish. It's just part of the cost and helps build reputation.

 

[MnFish1]

I QT all my fish before I sell them.

If one of my QT'd fish develops ich when the buyer put it into their system, where did the ich come from?

It wasn't in my system and wasn't on the fish.

The buyer's tank didn't show any sign of ich.

Then the blaming game start. And it's worse when the buyer feel like they paid for a QT'd fish.

I don't charge extra for a QT'd fish. It's just part of the cost and helps build reputation.

Curious - what is your QT process? Thanks

 

[Brew12]

For me, it would all depend on the type of fish. Tangs, Damsels, Basslets, Dwarf Angels and Clowns are all very easy to get through QT in my experience. I wouldn't pay much more for those. Some Wrasses, Pipefish, Mandarins and deep water Anthias are much more challenging and I would expect a larger premium exceeding 3x the cost on those.

 

[Aardvark1134]

You just named 2 of the hardest types to QT correctly...angels and tangs. Tangs are some of the most likely to get sick, and angels are some of the hardest to get to eat. Both are types where you generally want to add all at the same time. With their size and a aggression I would guess that 99% of people with saltwater tanks don't have a QT capable of QT all the tangs or all the angles they want to have at the same time. They are also both susceptible to bad water conditions often found in qt and lack of algae for them to pick at in the QT.

 

[ihavecrabs]

Hello,

I’m expecting backlash from this but I’m being honest. It’s sad we do not do this now. The way humans treat animals and mammals and nature is just tragic. I wouldn’t pay anything extra, I would expect the company to have human decency to provide the best care and medical to anything they take out of nature and or breed.

It’s always about money, what’s the profit? I have a better suggestion, how about get rich and we’ll known because the fish or corals you sell are super healthy and not at risk for disease. Yes it’s s life form, even healthy humans get sick, the same with animals. At the same time these poor fish are stressed to the max, not even given time to heal and sold as quick as possible. How does anyone find this ethical and moral? Yes I have a tank and corals, but at the same time I do everything possible within my power and technology today to keep them healthy and alive. But if we are willing to pay more, companies will take advantage of that, and how do we actually know? Trust now a days is a hard thing to earn as compared to older times. Yes they may give a warranty but the idea is not to have the first one die in the first place. Yes I can see of old age or something happening that’s life. But how many fish die from shipping and not being fully healthy before hand? Not to mention people who buy them and don’t even have proper tanks etc. (whole list of things). In terms of the topic why should we pay extra? I would hope the people I buy from care as much about their livestock as much as I do. It’s sad we have a price for life on animals pets etc.

I have another perspective. I agree with it being the right thing to do, but ask yourself this.

Will a company that wants to do the right thing succeed and be profitable by differentiating themselves in this way VS all of the big shops out there selling diseased riddled fish?

My guess is no for two reasons.

1. The general hobbyist population either doesn't care enough to pay more or just "want it now"
2. No legislation exists to protect these creatures.

To fix this, we either:

1. Get people to care and make more informed purchases (not likely)
2. Legislation needs to be created and enforced similarly as it is in Europe to have better protections for these creatures.

Either way, the price will go up because to treat or minimize disease in the supply chain will likely cost more initially. I would think long-term their profits would go up though given the significant reduction in livestock loss.

 

[Peter Clark]

My preferred LFS does QT their fish, but I honestly don't know their full methodology and honestly no matter what it was I would still want to put them through my own QT just to be extra safe. I'm novice enough I would not trust myself to catch something fast enough if there was an outbreak, so being extra safe at the start is needed. And I have a feeling the LFS does a short QT and not the full length one needed. I also know they only dip their corals so I have a coral/invert Qt prepared at my house too.

As for price, probably 1.5x (50% more) or so more. I select 2x in the poll since that was closest.

Disclaimer: still in the early part of my build process so no livestock YET

 

[redfishbluefish]

We use to have a Veterinarian here in NJ who ran a fish and coral business out of his practice. All fish would go through a battery of drugs, taking a month or so, giving you a fish that was disease free. I can't remember pricing, but don't remember it being that bad...I'll take a guess, maybe 25 - 30 percent more. Unfortunately he closed up that practice.

And yes, I would be buying from him if he was still around. The cost of setting up QT and getting the drugs (near impossible) easily justifies the additional costs. And, I don't know if it's real, or just my perception, but it seems a greater number of fish are coming in now that are diseased/infected with something.

 

[Schnizzle]

First- 2x, 3x, etc what - an internet site? An LFS? etc

I picked 2x - that said part of it depends on what 'certified' means. Does it mean the fish arrives disease free? Does it mean the fish arrives disease free with some kind of proof of QT? Does it mean the fish have a warranty against disease for 2 weeks, 3 months, 6 months against disease?

The problem is (on both sides) - how can the buyer be sure that a complete proper QT was done? On the seller side - how can the seller be sure he's selling his QT'd fish to an owner that doesn't have disease lurking in their tank (thus the new fish will get it). Because of part 2 (the seller risk) - I can't imagine that the warranty provided could possibly be 'that good'. To me the amount I'd pay relates only to the certification/warrnaty I receive.

This was my exact thought. How can a seller prove the fish was good to go and didn't end up in a diseased tank?

 

[WVNed]

I expect healthy fish for the price I am paying now. I would rather see a better delivery system for pet stocks than a trip to the hospital before I get them.

My Petco fish are watching this thread

snacking on nori

 

[CMO]

IMO this is the only type of fish that should be offered. When dealing with live animals, cost should not be an optional deciding factor on health. We should focusing on regulating the trade such that only healthy fish are allowed to be sold and whatever the resulting price so be it.

 

[MnFish1]

IMO this is the only type of fish that should be offered. When dealing with live animals, cost should not be a deciding factor on health. We should focusing on regulating the trade such that only healthy fish are allowed to be sold and whatever the resulting price so be it.

I agree to a degree - who should be 'responsible'. The collector (at the source) the middle man, or the LFS? Then once they have gone through all that work - what happens when there is CI, velvet, name your issue in the tank in which the fish is placed..... it all gets very difficult.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Definitely disagree with all fish having to be quarantined to be sold as most places do it with copper. Copper is poison and not good for your fish. There are lots of studies trying to prove whether or not the fish ever truly recover from months of copper. Many people believe being exposed to copper for months will take years off the fishes life span. I personally will not buy from anywhere that uses copper to preventively treat. Actively treat is ok but I am not about to drop my fish in poison because I can't tell if it's sick or healthy. That's like giving your kid chemo for a couple months because you don't want to bother to find out for sure if they need it or not when they might be perfectly healthy already. Severe meds should be a last resort not a not sure if I need to do anything or not responce.

 

[Bob Weigant]

Id still rather go to the store and see it in person. I know thats not an option for some

 

[JMM744]

The current practice to do do copper for 14 days and then observe. I have never heard anyone recommend “months” of copper.

 

[CMO]

I agree to a degree - who should be 'responsible'. The collector (at the source) the middle man, or the LFS? Then once they have gone through all that work - what happens when there is CI, velvet, name your issue in the tank in which the fish is placed..... it all gets very difficult.

I'd advocate for wholesalers to have minimum standards akin to Divers Den, TSM etc. While I fully realize it may not be possible to completely eliminate the chance of diseases, these sellers do a great job of significantly reducing it (I've purchased over 30 fish for my current tank from these sellers without any disease). Unfortunately people for varying reasons will not choose to purchase exclusively from responsible sellers like this so I'd push for regulation to help force the issue.

 

[Aardvark1134]

Do you think pet stores tell you to come back in 14 days and they will start the copper now? Or do you think they have copper in the whole fish holding tank that the fish is exposed to for the entire time it takes for that fish to sell... I can tell you right now most the ones that say they QT and treat are low salt and low copper from the day the fish arrives to the day it sells...not for 14 days. It could easily be stuck in that stuff for months.

 

[dhuynh]

The current practice to do do copper for 14 days and then observe. I have never heard anyone recommend “months” of copper.

Lots of lfs use copper in their systems. A fish could be there for months.


I personally hate copper. Only as a last resort.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I'd pay 2X ...IF... there was some objective evidence that the QT process was:
1. Certified to some Standard that ensured that its output was truly healthy fish; and
2. Certified by an agency that verified the actual processes required by the Standard were being properly performed.

A guarantee for the a fish purchased is otherwise worthless. Replacing that one fish if it turns out not to be healthy isn't the issue. It's all the other specimens it may have infected that wouldn't be covered.

 

[bluprntguy]

Lots of lfs use copper in their systems. A fish could be there for months.

I personally hate copper. Only as a last resort.

I personally hate copper too, but it would be more humane to treat all wild caught fish for 14 days with therapeutic levels of copper to cure them and then move them to clean holding tank without copper. That’s better than to do what most fish stores do now, which is to leave the fish in sub therapeutic levels of copper indefinitely in order to suppress the symptoms of the disease that they still carry.

Captive bred fish don’t typically need any treatment (unless they are stored in a system with wild caught fish) because almost all breeders have eradicated the common diseases and manage their systems to prevent infection.

 

[Hemmdog]

I agree to a degree - who should be 'responsible'. The collector (at the source) the middle man, or the LFS? Then once they have gone through all that work - what happens when there is CI, velvet, name your issue in the tank in which the fish is placed..... it all gets very difficult.

I believe that responsibility should fall on the transshiper to basically only allow healthy animals into the country. I believe that’s how it works with mammals, incoming flights with mammals gets qt’d if they are showing signs of illness, to prevent Ebola outbreaks and crazy stuff that could devastate humanity. So I say make the transshippers qt and medicate. The wholesalers should do this process again, us as consumers shouldn’t have to deal with this with every single purchase, it’s crazy. I don’t know any other pet industry where your pet death chances from existing conditions are double digit percentages.