Changing nutrient export method

[Timfish]

@Jon Malkerson You may have already notice but some of these comments were made without ever taking the time to read research you refferenced and I posted links to in your other thread.

It is true you will need to do water changes. But that is true irregardless of any methodology you use. The best way, and pehaps the only way, to get rid of the hydrophilic DOC algae release that causes problems with coral microbiomes is with water changes. Skimmers can't touch it, GAC doesn't remove it (otherwise carbon dosing would come with the warning to not use GAC), ozone (beside being very difficult to monitor or use appropriately, Charles Delbeek, Next Wave 2011) breaks down the refractory component of DOC into type that promote heterotrophic bacteria, again something we don't necessarily want. SPonges do do a FAST job of processing DOC but we need to keep in mind they know the difference of DOC from algae and DOC from corals and process tehm differently and there is concern in the scientific community of positive feedback loops between sponges and algae shifting reef ecosystems to algae dominate or sponge dominate systems.

The extent you will need to do water changes is up to you to determine, you may get by with 5% - 10%, you may need 20-%-30%. I'd start with a larger number myself.

 

[Tamberav]

Hmm I use Caulerpa as my main export and I love the way my tank looks. I only change about 10-15g every 3 months.

Easiest tank I ever kept. I only test alk every so often and feed the fish and suck debris out every 3 months and call it a day. I never dose chaeto grow or whatever. The macro does fine without any special care.

The macro I use does not seem to catch debris. It settles in the sump (no sand in there so easy to suck out). So that is basically the purpose of my water change. I have many breeding snails, starfish, and pods in the fuge area.

I tried chaeto and hated it... picky thing and like you said... catches so much crap in it.

I hope you find that you are looking for with the change! There are many ways to run a successful reef. If you find that your set up is too much work or not getting the results, a change can be a good thing. I would probably turn off the flow and just rip clean all the sump out... remove all the macro and the sand and replace with new water.

 

[CoralClasher]

@Jon Malkerson You may have already notice but some of these comments were made without ever taking the time to read research you refferenced and I posted links to in your other thread.

It is true you will need to do water changes. But that is true irregardless of any methodology you use. The best way, and pehaps the only way, to get rid of the hydrophilic DOC algae release that causes problems with coral microbiomes is with water changes. Skimmers can't touch it, GAC doesn't remove it (otherwise carbon dosing would come with the warning to not use GAC), ozone (beside being very difficult to monitor or use appropriately, Charles Delbeek, Next Wave 2011) breaks down the refractory component of DOC into type that promote heterotrophic bacteria, again something we don't necessarily want. SPonges do do a FAST job of processing DOC but we need to keep in mind they know the difference of DOC from algae and DOC from corals and process tehm differently and there is concern in the scientific community of positive feedback loops between sponges and algae shifting reef ecosystems to algae dominate or sponge dominate systems.

The extent you will need to do water changes is up to you to determine, you may get by with 5% - 10%, you may need 20-%-30%. I'd start with a larger number myself.

Yeah I’m pretty set on getting rid of the algae. What’s the best way to make the shift? Will I be fine to just swap macros for soft corals and keep everything else the same?

 

[CoralClasher]

@tippin.turtle do you have any tips for me? It was your thread a few months ago that got me thinking about this too.

 

[Timfish]

Yeah I’m pretty set on getting rid of the algae. What’s the best way to make the shift? Will I be fine to just swap macros for soft corals and keep everything else the same?

All animals that are photosynthetic will use up nitrogen and phosphorus and are competing with algae. Pesonally I don't pay much attention to exact species and just use whatever is readily availble. You might look at Xenia though is a very fast growing animal and initially may be the best choice for your refugium. You can transition to other coral species or keep it depending on your prefferences. You should be able to find some posts on using Xeina in refugium. I certainly can relate to the advice not making changes fast, but what I have seen repeatedly (and is best expalined by Rohwer in his book) is nuisance algae literally stop growing in a week that certainly suggests there wer dramtic shifts in the ecosystem.

 

[CoralClasher]

All animals that are photosynthetic will use up nitrogen and phosphorus and are competing with algae. Pesonally I don't pay much attention to exact species and just use whatever is readily availble. You might look at Xenia though is a very fast growing animal and initially may be the best choice for your refugium. You can transition to other coral species or keep it depending on your prefferences. You should be able to find some posts on using Xeina in refugium. I certainly can relate to the advice not making changes fast, but what I have seen repeatedly (and is best expalined by Rohwer in his book) is nuisance algae literally stop growing in a week that certainly suggests there wer dramtic shifts in the ecosystem.

I’ve got lots of Xenia growing like weeds. What’s the worst thing that would happen if I just swap it all at one time? I would treat it like a stress event turn the lights down and test nutrients often. Water changes as needed.

 

[Timfish]

Your Xenia might be doing more than your macro algae already. Unless you created a phoshpate deficiency in your corals I would not lower you lights, it will only force your corals to adjust their photobiology, reduce the available photosynthates they get from their simbionts and reduce their ability to compete with algae in your system. If a phospahte deficiency has been created that might be a reason to lower your lights as it makes corals very sensitive to temperature changes as well but keep in mind not knowing the numbers of zooxanthellae there's a huge guess factor involved with that.

To control Xenia in my tanks I use stainless steel straws like in this video:

 

[tippin.turtle]

@tippin.turtle do you have any tips for me? It was your thread a few months ago that got me thinking about this too.

Hey Jon, what tips are you looking for and what are you trying to accomplish?

 

[CoralClasher]

Hey Jon, what tips are you looking for and what are you trying to accomplish?

Mainly about how get away from algae dominate system and what nutrient control method I should use? But I’ve already made the shift and now just watching the nutrients. Today’s nutrient tests were 0.19 phosphate and 6.7 No3. So no nutrient spike like I was expecting and ALK has dropped slightly. Maybe one more question should I keep dosing Triton core7 that is designed for a macro refugium or should I switch?

 

[tippin.turtle]

Mainly about how get away from algae dominate system and what nutrient control method I should use? But I’ve already made the shift and now just watching the nutrients. Today’s nutrient tests were 0.19 phosphate and 6.7 No3. So no nutrient spike like I was expecting and ALK has dropped slightly. Maybe one more question should I keep dosing Triton core7 that is designed for a macro refugium or should I switch?

No experience with Triton Core 7 but makes no sense to dose something to benefit something you no longer have.

 

[Timfish]

Mainly about how get away from algae dominate system and what nutrient control method I should use? But I’ve already made the shift and now just watching the nutrients. Today’s nutrient tests were 0.19 phosphate and 6.7 No3. So no nutrient spike like I was expecting and ALK has dropped slightly. Maybe one more question should I keep dosing Triton core7 that is designed for a macro refugium or should I switch?

I'd keep an eye on both PO4 and nitrate. You especially don't want PO4 to drop to fast and get low enough to cause a phosphate deficiency with your coral. Core 7 is supplying alkalinity, calcium and magnesium as well as some other stuff so you're going to want to watch those as well.