China wrasse sbd?

[ambuncher]

I’ve had my china wrasse for about 3 weeks. He’s been doing great until today, eating mysis and coral frenzy. Noticed earlier today he’s been swimming funny, sometimes almost vertically and his belly seems extremely full. First thought was swim bladder or constipation. 90 gallon tank, 36 gallon sump.

I looked into this and have a done a couple things—for possible bacterial infection, I put some stress guard in, as well as melafix, following dosing instructions on the bottles.

For possible constipation, I tried feeding him some green peas but he showed no interest. It was a long shot though. Also I put 8 teaspoons of epsom salts into 2.5 gallons of ro and slowly mixed it into the sump to be pumped through the return into the DT over time.

Anyone know how long the epsom salts take to work their way through? Should I add a little more epsom salts? Any other thoughts? Pics attached

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’ve had my china wrasse for about 3 weeks. He’s been doing great until today, eating mysis and coral frenzy. Noticed earlier today he’s been swimming funny, sometimes almost vertically and his belly seems extremely full. First thought was swim bladder or constipation. 90 gallon tank, 36 gallon sump.

I looked into this and have a done a couple things—for possible bacterial infection, I put some stress guard in, as well as melafix, following dosing instructions on the bottles.

For possible constipation, I tried feeding him some green peas but he showed no interest. It was a long shot though. Also I put 8 teaspoons of epsom salts into 2.5 gallons of ro and slowly mixed it into the sump to be pumped through the return into the DT over time.

Anyone know how long the epsom salts take to work their way through? Should I add a little more epsom salts? Any other thoughts? Pics attached

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We have to determine if disease or what may be a neurological
disorder known as UNWND

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’ve had my china wrasse for about 3 weeks. He’s been doing great until today, eating mysis and coral frenzy. Noticed earlier today he’s been swimming funny, sometimes almost vertically and his belly seems extremely full. First thought was swim bladder or constipation. 90 gallon tank, 36 gallon sump.

I looked into this and have a done a couple things—for possible bacterial infection, I put some stress guard in, as well as melafix, following dosing instructions on the bottles.

For possible constipation, I tried feeding him some green peas but he showed no interest. It was a long shot though. Also I put 8 teaspoons of epsom salts into 2.5 gallons of ro and slowly mixed it into the sump to be pumped through the return into the DT over time.

Anyone know how long the epsom salts take to work their way through? Should I add a little more epsom salts? Any other thoughts? Pics attached

First of all, feeding peas and using Epsom salts in the water are both freshwater remedies. For some reason, the idea using them in marine aquariums has gotten spread around, but it is incorrect. Did you read about that on this site?

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) is the fourth most common salt in marine mixes, so adding a bit more has no benefit. I know the person who helped develop the "feeding peas" process back in the 1960's. It was designed to fix a problem specifically with fancy goldfish.

That said, there is no real fix for this problem. Looking at the bulge, and the way the fish is swimming, it is likely gas build up in the gut, from bacterial action. It could also be an over inflated swim bladder, but the bulge seems too low to be that. The bobbing action while it swims is the fish trying to fight against the buoyancy of the gas.

Is the fish still eating? One possible benefit would be Epsom salts in the food, not the water.

Jay

 

[ambuncher]

Thanks Jay! He is still eating. Yes, I found threads on the Epsom salts and peas on here as well as other sites. From what I read, it sounded like raising the magnesium sulfate levels would be helpful as it would be absorbed through the gills (not sure ‘absorbed’ is the right terminology) but now that I think about it, I don’t know if the gills connect to the stomach in that way. Any recommendations on what kind of food to mix with the epsom salts, how much, and how to feed? Any advice is appreciated!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay! He is still eating. Yes, I found threads on the Epsom salts and peas on here as well as other sites. From what I read, it sounded like raising the magnesium sulfate levels would be helpful as it would be absorbed through the gills (not sure ‘absorbed’ is the right terminology) but now that I think about it, I don’t know if the gills connect to the stomach in that way. Any recommendations on what kind of food to mix with the epsom salts, how much, and how to feed? Any advice is appreciated!

The oral dose for Epsom salts is 3% by weight in the food. Here is a post I made on medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods Jay Hemdal c. 2020 Oral medications are an excellent way to target internal diseases of fishes. Marine fish absorb aquarium water, so in certain cases, they “drink” enough medication from the water to effect a cure. However, freshwater fish actively export...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ambuncher]

First of all, feeding peas and using Epsom salts in the water are both freshwater remedies. For some reason, the idea using them in marine aquariums has gotten spread around, but it is incorrect. Did you read about that on this site?

Magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) is the fourth most common salt in marine mixes, so adding a bit more has no benefit. I know the person who helped develop the "feeding peas" process back in the 1960's. It was designed to fix a problem specifically with fancy goldfish.

That said, there is no real fix for this problem. Looking at the bulge, and the way the fish is swimming, it is likely gas build up in the gut, from bacterial action. It could also be an over inflated swim bladder, but the bulge seems too low to be that. The bobbing action while it swims is the fish trying to fight against the buoyancy of the gas.

Is the fish still eating? One possible benefit would be Epsom salts in the food, not the water.

Jay

So update: he was looking really, really bad yesterday afternoon. Very strained swimming, big bulge. I figured he was a goner if I didn’t do anything, so I tried something drastic. I looked up how to ‘vent’ a fishes stomach. Once I caught him, I laid him on a cutting board and took a small pin and poked a teeny hole under a scale in his stomach. Immediate relief of pressure, bulge went down by a 3rd.

I put him back in the tank and he was swimming a bit better. After about an hour, I soaked some food in selcon, garlic, and epsom salts and fed him. He ate a ton of it.

Came downstairs this morning, he is swimming happily, and the bulge in his stomach is completely gone! He looks very happy. I put stress guard in yesterday, and have a fresh bottle coming tomorrow. Going to keep with the garlic and selcon soaked food.

So, he made it.

Tl;dr: I poked a hole in his stomach and fed him food soaked in epsom salts, bulge is gone

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So update: he was looking really, really bad yesterday afternoon. Very strained swimming, big bulge. I figured he was a goner if I didn’t do anything, so I tried something drastic. I looked up how to ‘vent’ a fishes stomach. Once I caught him, I laid him on a cutting board and took a small pin and poked a teeny hole under a scale in his stomach. Immediate relief of pressure, bulge went down by a 3rd.

I put him back in the tank and he was swimming a bit better. After about an hour, I soaked some food in selcon, garlic, and epsom salts and fed him. He ate a ton of it.

Came downstairs this morning, he is swimming happily, and the bulge in his stomach is completely gone! He looks very happy. I put stress guard in yesterday, and have a fresh bottle coming tomorrow. Going to keep with the garlic and selcon soaked food.

So, he made it.

Tl;dr: I poked a hole in his stomach and fed him food soaked in epsom salts, bulge is gone

Good news! Hopefully the gas doesn’t return though, it very often does.

 

[ambuncher]

Good news! Hopefully the gas doesn’t return though, it very often does.

Ok. I’ve been feeding him a mix of coral frenzy, mysis, and ‘emerald entree’. Are there any other foods you recommend I add in or change to? I have a variety of other frozen foods, as well as omega flakes and pellets. I try to stay away from the dried foods because of po4, but I can try them and see if he will take them.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok. I’ve been feeding him a mix of coral frenzy, mysis, and ‘emerald entree’. Are there any other foods you recommend I add in or change to? I have a variety of other frozen foods, as well as omega flakes and pellets. I try to stay away from the dried foods because of po4, but I can try them and see if he will take them.

Just be sure you don’t fall into the trap of limiting food to the fish in order to try and control nutrient loading - the fish needs calories the most right now.