Cleaner shrimp disease?

[Christoph]

Hi all,

i know thats a forum dedicated to fish disease, but i still think its the right place to ask:

In our main tank (320 g mixed reef) we are having huge problems keeping shrimp alive. We tried different species (Lysmata amboinensis, Lysmata debelius and Lysmata wundermanni) in the course of over a year, and werent able to keep one longer than maybe a month.

The picture is always fairly similar: First the shrimps seem active and feeding, but they go into hiding more and more. Also they dont seem to offer cleaning services to fish anymore. Usually one morning they are just missing not to be seen again.

First i suspected i mantis shrimp (there is a small one in the tank...) but today morning i found the last Lysmata amboinensis (added about 4 weeks ago) lethargic and close to death without any signs of physical injury. - So i dont think its a predator. Furthermore the predator therory would not explain the behavioral change in the animals.

In some of the shrimps i could see darkened gills, like in this picture taken from the wetwebmedia page, directing towards "black gill disease":


Further observations:

I could witness any of the shrimps motling and also never found a skin of a molted shrimp.

In a frag tank (same water as in the main tank) a Lysmata kuekenthali lives already for many months without apparent problem, also molting without issues.

Salinity is at 35.5 psu, all common chemical parameters are within range, ICP is testing negative for elevated heavy metals and iodine is supplemented daily. Water is exchanges weekly (5-10%).

I also tried letting the main tank fallow on shrimps and didnt add a new one for over 2 months... without any success.


I would really like to be able keeping those fantastic creatures since they also add a lot of value to the fish population. Any help would be very much appreciated!

Best regards,
Christoph

 

[EmdeReef]

Sorry to hear that.

Do they come out when you feed or hide? What are your nitrates? (this is rare but a few studies indicate higher nitrates may be slowing down metabolic functions in shrimp). Have you tried keeping a newly acquired specimen in your frag tank first for an extended period of time then moving to the tank?

I'm familiar with farmed shrimp diseases and some food shrimp illnesses but don't know if any would affect ornamental cleaner shrimp species. As for black gill disease, I would assume it's possible given different causes but one of the main symptoms would be lesions or significant molting even if incomplete (at least that is consistent with food shrimp).

 

[Christoph]

Thanks for your suggestions! They hid most of the time, also during feeding. At have seen some response to food at night. I didnt try yet starting the shrimps off in the frag tank, but thats for sure a good idea!

Nitrates are in the range of 2-5 mg/l, so that should not be an issue.

Ive seen the lethargic shrimp from todays morning ended up in the cave of the mantis shrimp. Maybe its a predator problem after all. Anyway, thae mantis needs to find a new place to live.. im goint to assemble a bottle trap asap.

Thanks for the additional infos regarding the black gill disease... significant molting was not observed at all.

All the best,
Christoph

 

[Humblefish]

Wow, this is a new one to me.

Let's see if anyone on the #reefsquad can help us figure this out.

 

[Humblefish]

@Christoph Have you seen this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-spots-on-my-shrimp.323289/

This Taura syndrome sounds intriguing... o_O

 

[Christoph]

@Christoph Have you seen this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-spots-on-my-shrimp.323289/

This Taura syndrome sounds intriguing... o_O

Good morning Bobby,

yes, i stumbled upon this thread, but the "Taura syndrome" seems to cause black foci on the whole shrimp, not just in the gill area. -So luckily Taura doesnt seem very likely.

There seem to be quite some threads mentioning black gills or spots on shrimps, but as far as ive seen nobody came up with a real explanation or solution for this phenomenon. :(

Best regards,
Christoph

 

[Humblefish]

Good morning Bobby,

yes, i stumbled upon this thread, but the "Taura syndrome" seems to cause black foci on the whole shrimp, not just in the gill area. -So luckily Taura doesnt seem very likely.

There seem to be quite some threads mentioning black gills or spots on shrimps, but as far as ive seen nobody came up with a real explanation or solution for this phenomenon. :(

Best regards,
Christoph

If anyone can unravel this mystery, I'm betting it will be you, my friend. ;)

 

[EmdeReef]

Thanks for your suggestions! They hid most of the time, also during feeding. At have seen some response to food at night. I didnt try yet starting the shrimps off in the frag tank, but thats for sure a good idea!

Nitrates are in the range of 2-5 mg/l, so that should not be an issue.

Ive seen the lethargic shrimp from todays morning ended up in the cave of the mantis shrimp. Maybe its a predator problem after all. Anyway, thae mantis needs to find a new place to live.. im goint to assemble a bottle trap asap.

Thanks for the additional infos regarding the black gill disease... significant molting was not observed at all.

All the best,
Christoph

Agree on the nitrates, too low to cause issues. If they're not coming out for feeding then it could be stress/bullying. Shrimp do have some regenerative ability so not all signs would be easily visible.

Black gills can be caused by a free swimming ciliate, fungal infection, sediment accumulation in gills (unlikely in our tanks), and bacteria, there may be other causes. The discoloration is regarded as a secondary symptom. There is no known reliable cure in prawn/lobster/shrimp farms, although some respond to antibiotic and anti-fungal treatments (with challenges). The ciliate(s) in question may be similar to uronema and it's plausible it could survive indefinitely in our tanks. Gill discoloration can also occur postmortem due to other causes.

Running something like an A/B test would be one way to rule out the presence of a pathogen or taking tissue samples. I would still rehome the mantis as they're always a bit of a wild card IME. Good luck and hopefully we can learn more!

 

[Lasse]

I have a similar problem with on species of shrimp Rhynchcinetes durbanensis. I have two that have survive for 3 months in my fuge but if i put any in my DT - they disappear rather fast. However - I have two Lysmata debelius that has been in the DT for 16 months without any problems. My theory is that I have something that prey on them when they molt. I have two small Anthias hawks Plectranthias inermis - my small shrimps disappear directly after that i introduce these. I have 1 pistol shrimp too.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[EmdeReef]

@Christoph ever figured out what causes this issue or any treatment? I have a cleaner shrimp in QT with the same problem.

 

[BluesClues]

Hi all,

i know thats a forum dedicated to fish disease, but i still think its the right place to ask:

In our main tank (320 g mixed reef) we are having huge problems keeping shrimp alive. We tried different species (Lysmata amboinensis, Lysmata debelius and Lysmata wundermanni) in the course of over a year, and werent able to keep one longer than maybe a month.

The picture is always fairly similar: First the shrimps seem active and feeding, but they go into hiding more and more. Also they dont seem to offer cleaning services to fish anymore. Usually one morning they are just missing not to be seen again.

First i suspected i mantis shrimp (there is a small one in the tank...) but today morning i found the last Lysmata amboinensis (added about 4 weeks ago) lethargic and close to death without any signs of physical injury. - So i dont think its a predator. Furthermore the predator therory would not explain the behavioral change in the animals.

In some of the shrimps i could see darkened gills, like in this picture taken from the wetwebmedia page, directing towards "black gill disease":


Further observations:

I could witness any of the shrimps motling and also never found a skin of a molted shrimp.

In a frag tank (same water as in the main tank) a Lysmata kuekenthali lives already for many months without apparent problem, also molting without issues.

Salinity is at 35.5 psu, all common chemical parameters are within range, ICP is testing negative for elevated heavy metals and iodine is supplemented daily. Water is exchanges weekly (5-10%).

I also tried letting the main tank fallow on shrimps and didnt add a new one for over 2 months... without any success.


I would really like to be able keeping those fantastic creatures since they also add a lot of value to the fish population. Any help would be very much appreciated!

Best regards,
Christoph

Did you ever figure out how to help the shrimp just lost 3 of the four cleaner shrimp I have all have this black gills started about a week ago.

 

[Tux]

I wanna bump this. My shrimp just died after developing this same exact thing