Cleaner wrasse scratching on rocks

[Voltaire81]

I have a 225g with 2 regals, 1 swallowtail angel, 1 blonde naso, 2 pintail wrasses, and 2 clowns.

Anyway, some fish went through CP and Copper and some fish went through CP and TTM and also went through either prazipro or general cure for flukes and some went through NFG for bacterial infections. I observed each group about 2-3 weeks before adding to my DT.

Last fish that went into DT was the blonde about 5 weeks ago. Nothing wet has been added since.

After all this QTing for the last 6-7 months, I saw the cleaner wrasse scratching on rocks tonight.

Is it possible that fish can scratch on rocks and not have any parasites?

Ill likely try to catch the cleaner and give it a FW bath to check for flukes), but wondering if anyone has had any experience with fish scratching and no parasites.

No other symptoms and all fish are eating great.

 

[Best Fish-Jake]

Pretty ironic for a cleaner wrasse to come down with ich

 

[Voltaire81]

Pretty ironic for a cleaner wrasse to come down with ich

Ha. I agree. But I'm still hoping its not ich.

A cleaner wrasse also brought velvet to my tank and hence why I re-started this tank.

 

[Best Fish-Jake]

Is he constantly scratching or is it just occasionally? If it's constant, I would definetly qt and either put him into hyposalinity or treat with cupramine

 

[Voltaire81]

He scratched a few times before I fed the tank. After feeding, I didnt see him scratch at all.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'd FW dip him. Wrasse's seem to have flukes a lot.

 

[melypr1985]

Is it possible that fish can scratch on rocks and not have any parasites?

Yes it's possible. You would most usually see this in a fish that has been recently treated for parasites. As the little holes the parasites create heal over, they tend to itch so they continue to scratch for a time after treatment. It's not usually something that would continue for longer than a week or two though. I agree with the freshwater dip to check for flukes.

 

[4FordFamily]

Yes it's possible. You would most usually see this in a fish that has been recently treated for parasites. As the little holes the parasites create heal over, they tend to itch so they continue to scratch for a time after treatment. It's not usually something that would continue for longer than a week or two though. I agree with the freshwater dip to check for flukes.

Yep. And again I agree

 

[Humblefish]

^^ I agree as well. Just like with us, if a fish has an itch they're gonna scratch it. ;) But if it keeps happening continuously then you likely have a parasite or worm problem.

 

[Voltaire81]

Trap is in the tank. Hoping I can catchi him asap.

The good news is that I haven't seen him scratch today. And still no other symptoms from him and the other fish.

I'll still perform a fw dip to make sure.

 

[Reefahholic]

^^ I agree as well. Just like with us, if a fish has an itch they're gonna scratch it. ;) But if it keeps happening continuously then you likely have a parasite or worm problem.

When a fish is flashing/scratching...Like @Humblefish said...it can be an itch. It can also be from bad water quality too. High nitrate/ammonia or low PH. With that said...It may be time to perform a water change. However....IMO if the fish has a parasite such as ICH, Velvet, or Flukes...You will definitely see repetitive scratching. You can't miss it! Sometimes I'll cut the flow off to really observe the fishes behavior.

One of the best things you can do is have a tall QT with good lighting so that you can observe the fish daily and KNOW when things are abnormal.

 

[Voltaire81]

Well, Im hoping this is good news (trying to be real optimistic here). No flukes from the FW dip. And I didnt see him scratch at all today.

Obviously, the bad news is that he could have velvet or ich. At this point, Im going to observe for a few days to determine my next steps.

From one of the stickies on the other site (RC), it mentions that scratching could be flukes, ich, velvet, or anchor worms. The only one I didnt knowingly treat for is anchor worms. Does CP, Copper, General Cure, Prazipro, or NFG normally treat that?

If not, what does? And besides scratching, what other symptoms should I look for?

 

[Humblefish]

From one of the stickies on the other site (RC), it mentions that scratching could be flukes, ich, velvet, or anchor worms. The only one I didnt knowingly treat for is anchor worms. Does CP, Copper, General Cure, Prazipro, or NFG normally treat that?

No, you'd have to use Dimilin to treat for anchor worms. However, anchor worms are very rare in SW fish except for sharks. They are more commonly seen with FW Koi & goldfish.

If not, what does? And besides scratching, what other symptoms should I look for?

Anchor worms are easily visible. They appear as red or inflamed skin irritations with little whitish-green worms sticking out. The tail of the worm makes a V.

 

[Voltaire81]

Anchor worms are easily visible. They appear as red or inflamed skin irritations with little whitish-green worms sticking out. The tail of the worm makes a V.

Thanks @Humblefish. I dont think theyre Anchor worms then. I dont see those symptoms at all.

Ill keep observing for the next few days and see what I can do next.

 

[Voltaire81]

@melypr1985 @Humblefish.

I haven't seen any other fish scratch or have seen any other symptoms, but I've been thinking of what I can do next. I really rather not break this down or leave fallow again if there is a parasite. This is essentially running as a FOWLR now with some inverts and no substrate, only an HDPE sheet/board.

If Im dealing with Ich, I think I can run hypo on this tank (have some inverts that I should be able to easily move). Id watch for ammonia spikes and watch my ph levels closely.

Or alternatively, dose the tank with CP (and remove the inverts and rocks). I was reading through the CP thread but wasnt able to find this info.
If I decide to go this route and use CP in the DT, is CP the same as Copper, in that I can no longer add inverts or corals to the tank? I might be fine with this and just make it FOWLR.

 

[Humblefish]

If I decide to go this route and use CP in the DT, is CP the same as Copper, in that I can no longer add inverts or corals to the tank? I might be fine with this and just make it FOWLR.

You should be able to house corals/inverts again after running a lot of carbon. However, CP is likely to be biodegraded in a DT by heterotrophic bacteria and thus, fail to eradicate the parasites. :(

 

[melypr1985]

I agree. You'd probably be better served with running hypo

 

[Voltaire81]

Some updates here:

- Unfortunately, I saw the cleaner wrasse scratch after my last post, so decided to just start hypo.
- Took me about 4 days to get it down to 1.009, using a refractomer and pinpoint salinity monitor after calibrating. I have an ATO setup so its always at 1.009 and tested the salinity daily.
- Fast forward to yesterday (13 days after i got it down to 1.009), I saw the cleaner scratch again!

No other fish has shown any other symptoms.

Is it normal to see a fish scratch after ~2 weeks in hypo? Could this be anything else?

Ive given the cleaner wrasse a FW bath and didnt see any flukes. Could this be velvet? Although, Im assuming i wouldve seen some deaths by now or other symptoms?

I suppose its possible that Im not at 1.009, but that seems unlikely unless both my refractometer and salinty monitor are reading incorrectly. Anyway, ill ask another reefer to test my water.

 

[Humblefish]

Could be velvet, and full blown symptoms are just being suppressed for now. Of course, a hypo resistant strain of ich could also be to blame. :eek:

However, it's not usual for fish to continue scratching for a little while even after the all trophonts have dropped off. As new skin grows over the tiny bite marks, it feels itchy just like how we feel following a sunburn.

 

[Voltaire81]

Thanks @Humblefish. What can suppress velvet symptoms? Hypo and other treatments that ive done previously?

Ive had these fish since sept/oct of 2016 so roughly 6-7 months ago. Is it possible that velvet can have been suppressed for that long?

Obviously im hoping its because new skin has grown over the bite marks or even a hypo resistant ich.