Closest LED to old VHO Super Actinics?

[A. grandis]

Have you attempted any of the local variety of porites?

What do you mean? In the house? Illegal. No live corals nor live rocks are allowed to be collected or shipped to be kept in home aquaria. Federal law.

 

[oreo54]

Shielding Aquarium Lamps

Hobbyists may think their aquaria are doing fine under unshielded lamps. We suggest that they can do even better by removing UV radiation. We’ve checked many “plastics” and Table Five lists the transmission properties.

Ultraviolet Light, Marine Aquariums and Coral Reef Aquarium Tank, Stand, Canopy, and Aquarium Filter System

www.aquarium-design.com

Review

These short articles have shown that all the lamps we tested produced UV radiation. Metal halide lamps’ outer glass envelopes only weaken UV; they do not eliminate it. The actual amount of UV produced by a metal halide lamp depends upon many factors such as lamp wattage, lamp orientation and arc tube construction (universal burn position versus bottom up or bottom down). Profound differences can exist between “identical” lamps. More importantly, the shape (along with the type of reflective surface) can focus UV energy into “hot spots” where the UV energy exceeds that found in nature. Even higher UV energy is produced during lamp strike and water surface waves can further focus this radiation. Seemingly small differences (such as lamp height) can also have a major impact upon the amount of UV entering an aquarium. With so many variables involved, it is difficult, if not impossible, to know how much UV is being produced without actually making measurements.

We have seen that UV radiation has the potential to damage corals and other coral reef inhabitants. Many reef animals can produce natural sunscreens (MAA’s) to protect themselves against UV but MAA concentrations are possibly a response to the amount of UV to which they are subjected. This is an important point since UV production among all tested lamps was not consistent and can change dramatically during normal operation or when the lamp is changed.

Our experiences suggest that coral coloration is a response to PAR levels, not UV. In short, we find no reason to subject reef aquaria to high UV levels.

 

[A. grandis]

Oreo, it is great to read old and new articles. I love it! We have amazing authors!
Great to use graphics and charts too.
Better yet is to go snorkeling where you need to suck your belly in, so shallow it is, and try not to touch those UV hungry colorful colonies. We do not understand everything yet, but we can see results in nature and in our aquariums in regards to UV that can't be denied. Words and lines won't convince what you know by experience.
I'm sorry, but you won't proof anything to any guy that actually does see results.
I like some of your posts and appreciate some of the graphics. You should know I have nothing against you personally.

 

[oreo54]

Oreo, it is great to read old and new articles. I love it! We have amazing authors!
Great to use graphics and charts too.
Better yet is to go snorkeling where you need to suck your belly in, so shallow it is, and try not to touch those UV hungry colorful colonies. We do not understand everything yet, but we can see results in nature and in our aquariums in regards to UV that can't be denied. Words and lines won't convince what you know by experience.
I'm sorry, but you won't proof anything to any guy that actually does see results.
I like some of your posts and appreciate some of the graphics. You should know I have nothing against you personally.

Not going to be snorkeling in my living room..
you know few tanks are ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE to "natural"..

You kept babbling about all the UV in VHO tubes.. you were proven wrong.. deal w/ it.
There is nothing magical or "natural" about a VHO spectrum.

 

[honkit]

Yea, but they wouldn't call MH lovers a cult. It doesn't work like that. We don't call people "what we like".
We know there are different preferences, but they aren't cults.
I've never said metal halides are "superior" than LEDs without setting the particular reason why. There are things that LEDs are "superior". They are just different and will be forever. One does not substitute the other. With different results, people can choose what results they like the best.
To pretend you don't see LED lovers continuously posting how great LEDs are over other types of light is a joke to say the least! I'm sorry. Either you don't read this forum or you are kidding me. Even some of the LED advertisements do that in a dirty way. There is nothing wrong in posting what you believe works best for you. The respect and freedom of speech is mutual.
Check my messages and see that the only times I actually visited, or opened a thread to discuss LEDs was to help people. This is not a war. It's a matter of posting the facts and trying to prove with science when we can.

Kindly share a link or two where LED users continually beat down on halides. Let’s see who’s is the one who’s the joke here. On the other hand, you are crapping on LEDs on a regular (almost daily basis). Heck you even have a thread on that! If that is not a personal crusade or cultish , I don’t know what is. And don’t make me laugh about your so called science - you got called out on your lack of knowledge on UV in VHO bulbs.

 

[A. grandis]

hehe... not worthy at all.
I'm out.
Good night.

 

[oreo54]

hehe... not worthy at all.
I'm out.
Good night.

This thread was never about UV..
Went through the vid you posted..
Reefbrights they used look to be 410/440-ish 50/50
Author said they blew the vho's away..
Not hard to understand .. VHO's were too high (even w/ reflectors, lost a lot by that tube "advantage" of 360 light) so most of that 440W 's were wasted.. beat by 110W of LEDs for color and depth penetration..

Wish you'd stayed on topic...

 

[TexasTodd]

@oreo5457 can you please just re-post the one you're talking about here?

Author said they blew the vho's away..

Sorry, there's been too many other posts about things I wasn't looking for creating this thread.

Thanks,
Todd

 

[oreo54]

 

[jda]

Kind of a bummer. Having reefed for 30 years with everything my personal opinion mirror's @jda I still prefer the Super Actinic over any T5 or LED I've seen. It just seems that someone could nail copying one.

Talk with Tullio if you ever see him at a show and ask him about this. You can duplicate a UVL Super Actinic, but they will be short lived since the necessary diodes do not last, which takes away a lot of the benefit of buying a LED. You can bet that this would be done already if it was feasible economically and commercially. Regardless of what some troll on the internet says, this is not an easy problem to solve for people who live the real world, have to actually light a tank and keep customers happy. The fact that it has not been done already tells you all that you need to know...

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I don’t think the video of melves tank with reefbrite installed over it for a few weeks is going to change many vho guys over. That tank really needs to be redone, you can’t even see what the led are doing because of all the high rockwork and corals only growing sideways from no room. Not a great way to show how well xho works. They are great lights but not really comparable to a the bulbs in question in any way. I wonder why they didn’t show a before and after in that video?

 

[oreo54]

if it was feasible economically and commercially.

Was never the point..
Pretty sure VHO is a small market itself atm..

right or wrong.. pretty sure simple Royal blues have provided the "pop" and in sufficient quantities. color..
Profit margins are def higher using "plain" blues..

 

[oreo54]

They are great lights but not really comparable to a the bulbs in question in any way. I wonder why they didn’t show a before and after in that video?

Already said that earlier, it's Grandis who even brought it up in this comparison.
It was pretty much an ad.............

The amount of diodes and specific wavelengths make it economically unfeasible especially with such a small market..
In one nod to agreement.. "good enough" prevails.. actually part of what I fight against.

If you go back to #16 you will see how many pigments require <400nm to fluoresce.
would like to see a head to head w/ the Illumimagic (over-priced again).

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Use 2 bars =1 VHO

See # 22
Lot of lost images but pretty sure you can figure out what he's saying..

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2426439

Are true actinic lamps magical and cannot be replaced? Absolutely not, but if you are trying to replicate their effect, you need to replicate their spectral output, which is simple.

#73.. NOT similar enough...
I LOVE #71....

 

[A. grandis]

When Melev changed from VHO to that LED strip, I contacted him and told him he was making a mistake in terms of spectrum. I'm sure Tullio would tell him that, if he asked! I understood the visual part, but to use as a substitution is wrong. But clearly that wasn't the case. I also told him that VHOs were still being sold and sent him couple links where to buy, and that he shouldn't say that on video. The video was to show people what they normally think about the visual comparison to the human eye.
They don't care about the spectrum chart, all they care is about the "blue visual spectrum". For that application he was impressed because of the distance the bulbs were placed. The LEDs can reach further. The LEDs will also display different colors which proves the difference in spectrum between the two. That LED strip will never substitute what VHOs' spectrum. I don't think they even talked about that. Watch the video... All about visual. That was my point. Option! The halides are what always have been providing the juice for Melev's tank anyway, so changing VHOs for LEDs didn't matter that much.

I posted here already since the beginning that the UVL Super Actinic does offer useful UV (360-400) and that was all I posted. It has an unique spectrum chart. I don't need to prove that more than the chart below. How stupid is that!? The other UVL bulbs also offer useful UV. I've never said they are "UV bulbs". We don't want to use UV bulbs over a reef. Reflectors are important. When you do an experiment without reflectors you aren't gathering what really happens over a reeftank. The way to use tubes is with reflectors, just like halides.

I've never promoted any product from Reef Brite, nor participated in any ad. Just do a search and you will find out. I wouldn't even use their halides myself over other halides. They aren't bad products, but the fact is that I never promoted them in any way. Tullio is amazing and he does a great job making those halides the way he wants. I'm not saying I will never try them, just that I never did yet and therefore I can't recommend them. It's innovation and new technology. You want to save money with electricity and have less heat using halides? That's what Reef Brite halides are about. The LED strip had the "punch", they say. Never tried and can't recommend!
It is stupid to say that any actinic bulb represent anything natural. I've never said that! In a combo it has very useful spots though. Can change the whole thing! Practically speaking, not ""internetically"" speaking. LOL! What Tullio was referring with "natural" was specifically about the "looks", with the mix from the reflectors, providing a better uniform visual light. At least that was what I understood.
If practically speaking LEDs could substitute other types of reef lighting would be great, but that is not the case at all. And it doesn't have to do only with spectrum, but the way light is emitted, mixed and spread. Not to talk about cost!
Have a good day.

 

[oreo54]

In summary:
1) UVL t5 VHO's emit very little UV.
2) Spectrum consists of a broad BLUE band w/ major green spike (impossible for LED to emulate) and minor amber spike
3) Spectrum is fairly easy to emulate w/ LED but cost/availability of specific diodes is an issue.
Commercial viability of CORRECT spectrum current CHEAP emulations is non-existant.
4) Using most <440nm LED's does present a "longetivity" issue. 50000hrs is prob not relevant
5) Tubes will always appear "softer" i.e more "glowey" because of the PHYSICS of delivery.
VHO's may include internal reflectors so a bit "better"..
This applies to EVERY T5 EVER made regardless of spectrum.
6) Few people care about t5 vho atm..
7) Fluorescent "pop" is easy enough w/ Royal Blue LED's
8) VHO's produce a ton of "PAR"
9) Personal bias is hard to overcome.

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/345901-adding-blue-led-stars-to-my-metalhalide-hood/#comments

For each LED strip, I'd probably use 6x royal blue, 6x blue 6x hyper violet, 6x true violet. Running at 700mA, that puts you at 54w per strip and gives you plenty of spread for each LED color. Since they're all blue and violet, you don't particularly need to cluster them as you shouldn't have color banding.

LED UV (410nm) [120°] x3
LED Violet (420nm) [120°] x6

Ultra-Violet (UV) High Power LED Star

LED RoyalBlue (440nm) [120°] x4

26W (driver dependent) of VHO Actinic light..WHY it's
not a commercial product..
One would need to buy 1000's of diodes and sell 1000's of fixtures at a luxury price and lower
output than things like reefbrights ect. One could "pad" that at the expense of longetivity.


Franky cheaper alternatives are "good enough" for the majority..
The Luxeons can be gotten cheaper.

 

[oreo54]

When Melev changed from VHO to that LED strip, I contacted him and told him he was making a mistake in terms of spectrum. I'm sure Tullio would tell him that, if he asked! I understood the visual part, but to use as a substitution is wrong. But clearly that wasn't the case. I also told him that VHOs were still being sold and sent him couple links where to buy, and that he shouldn't say that on video. The video was to show people what they normally think about the visual comparison to the human eye.
They don't care about the spectrum chart, all they care is about the "blue visual spectrum". For that application he was impressed because of the distance the bulbs were placed. The LEDs can reach further. The LEDs will also display different colors which proves the difference in spectrum between the two. That LED strip will never substitute what VHOs' spectrum. I don't think they even talked about that.

I already mentioned the Reefbright spectrum was a POOR emulation of the UVL Actinic..
Then again he said he got more COLOR out of the Reefbrights.

Yes do watch the video..

I posted here already since the beginning that the UVL Super Actinic does offer useful UV (360-400) and that was all I posted.

No.................