Clown - Possible gil parasites? Lack of oxygen?

[tutmatt3]

Hey Guys,

I'll give you the abridged version here, and extended notes below, as well as a link to my last thread on this lil clown: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-dots-on-clown.283322/

Abridged:
-Bought 2x clowns, went back to store today & observed the rest, we noticed all of them @ top of tank, and 1 had some white spots - possible ich. Many of the others also had similar features to mine such as pin hole looking feature, or a little bit 'scrapped off' in that area. Employee said it can be just the individuals anatomy, but I'm not sure on this one - something about how they sense the water?
- Employee suggested the following 2:
• Safety Stop - Rapid fish Quarantine: http://melevsreef.com/node/1418
• Mardel Quick Cure - https://www.amazon.com/Fritz-Aquati...6&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=mardel+quick+cure+ick
(Tank only has dry rock / live sand, so he ensured safety stop would be safe for me to use in my DT
- During the Safety Stop, the little [pin holes in side of head fish] was definitely stressed! Repeated features such as swimming towards the top of the bag on the way home - but they got worse (only during treatment in bucket)
1) Started swimming/floating in place on its side towards the top for 80% of the time.
2) rapid dash
3) heavy breathing
4) white stripe appeared to be turning purple @ one point, and at it's worst,
5) extremely slow movement followed by 'attempt @ a quick dart'. Literally thought that was it for the guy and I was the worst fish owner ever.
-The other (bigger) clown had no issues at all in this rapid QT. Swam like normal
- After 45min treatment in each bucket, and put back in to the tank - NO problems/acting up at alllll. He went to his rock, & swimming in the tank just like he was before I grabbed him for treatment.


My limited experience self & brief research during this panic / sorrowful situation found that the actions he did during this treatment resemble those of fish with parasites on their gills - which can cause issues with oxygen.


My plan of action after speaking for a very long time w/ the EMP was to do this treatment, followed by 3x days of dosing the QUICK CURE 1x a day. Being now that there is highly likely something up w/ the lil guy - should i extend the days of treatment? Is there a different treatment I should be using? Since I don't have a QT tank, it looks like my display tank is going to be the hospital for now, but once again really lucky that there is no other fish / coral / snails / etc besides the dry rock / live sand.

Seriously, thank you guys so much for bearing with me and helping me out so much as much as you've done. Now I HIGHLY see the benefits of a QT tank, and need to begin to invest in one for my next fish. I thought some my tank was so new that I wouldn't have been able to accommodate for a QT since most my bacteria is in my sand/rock & a bit in the filters I would assume.
Should I install a small filter for a 10gal QT tank on my current DT for 1x week, and would that be sufficient to provide the proper bacteria during a QT? I know I have a lot more to research & look into on this, so excuse my a.d.d. and lets focus on Dazzle! (small clown)

THANKSSSSSS

 

[Diesel]

My advice and I'm pretty sure that many will back me as we can't stress it more often is to quarantine your fish in all cost.
A 10 or 20 gallon tank with a HOB in most cases cost you less than the fish you buy.
Many stores do carry some kind of decease in the tanks and it's hard for them to correct that.
The hobbyist in the final step (YOU) need to be responsible in a quarantine process at the end.
I know they are tough words but that's will be the only thing to make sure your fish will get healthy and live a long life to give you and your family pleasure for years to come.
Never ever use your DT as a QT or hospital tank, reason is due to the medication you use and other tank inhabitants like corals or CUC will not like it as much as dead can follow upon them.
I let @Humblefish and @melypr1985 guide you through the right process of handling this issue.

 

[Brew12]

Is there a different treatment I should be using? Since I don't have a QT tank, it looks like my display tank is going to be the hospital for now, but once again really lucky that there is no other fish / coral / snails / etc besides the dry rock / live sand.

Unfortunately, you got some pretty bad advice on any number of points. As Diesel said, you really need to get a QT system. A 10g aquarium with a heater and HOB is all you need. If you use your DT a hospital tank and treat with copper as you need to do with ich, you may never be able to successfully keep inverts or coral in the tank. Your only hope would be to always have a heavy metals absorbent in your filter and hope you can keep copper levels low enough.
If these do have ich, the only way to get it out of your DT other than using copper or CP is to let the tank go without fish for at least 76 days. This way the ich parasites will starve themselves out and make it safe for fish again.

 

[melypr1985]

I'd like to see a picture of this "pin hole" in the head and of the ich. I agree with the boys above there. A separate QT for new additions is a must now a days. How to Quarantine This will have lots of good info on how to set up that QT.

 

[tutmatt3]

So should I discontinue the use of the treatment in My dt?

 

[melypr1985]

So should I discontinue the use of the treatment in My dt?

I wouldn't treat any more in the display, especially with the other meds you are thinking of using. You'd pretty mch have to replace all the rock and sand afterwards. Cheaper to just set up a 10 gallon QT.

A few questions first: How many days have these dots been present? Have they gotten worse/more numerous since you first noticed them? Any other symptoms to go wtih them: Heavy breathing, lethargy, lack of appetite, hiding excessively, flashing or scratching?

 

[tutmatt3]

I wouldn't treat any more in the display, especially with the other meds you are thinking of using. You'd pretty mch have to replace all the rock and sand afterwards. Cheaper to just set up a 10 gallon QT.

A few questions first: How many days have these dots been present? Have they gotten worse/more numerous since you first noticed them? Any other symptoms to go wtih them: Heavy breathing, lethargy, lack of appetite, hiding excessively, flashing or scratching?

Thanks a lot @melypr1985 !

Here are more pictures of the little guy below. Just noticed the white spot today :/
I am going to be setting up a 10gal QT for future fish (would need to start cycle using media from current tank)

Dots have been present from when I got him (2x days ago). Haven't increased or decreased, and symptoms were ONLY during trasit home, & when in the 45x min baths listed above.
Symptoms during those times: heavy breathing, swimming towards top of water, 'floating' on side @ top, and briefly extreme fatigue & slight purple of a the belly white stripe.

Once put back into DT, acted perfectly normal.

For my situation until I have a QT tank up, should I continue to use the quick cure in my DT? Rock was Dry Rock, & sand was Live Sand. Supposedly this product has no metals that come in other treatment
No other animals/plants in the tank
• Mardel Quick Cure - https://www.amazon.com/Fritz-Aquati...6&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=mardel+quick+cure+ick


Seriously thanks so much for all the help! I know my DT probably needs to rid of anything these guys do have before introducing new fish. Am I still looking @ 8x weeks for that?

Photos:

 

[melypr1985]

For my situation until I have a QT tank up, should I continue to use the quick cure in my DT?

No. I wouldn't put that in my display no matter what. It contains formalin which is a carcenogen. Every time you put your hand in the tank you are exposing yourself to it and the fish are breathing it in all the time. I save formalin for when I have no other options as a treatment. You'll want to run carbon and try to pull any Quick Cure out of the tank.

I suspect there could be more than one thing happening here. I see the white mark near the tail as well. Couple that with the heavy breathing, then the dots on the head.... it's a strange mix. I think we need to call in a second opinion here... @Humblefish @4FordFamily @Brew12 What does it seem like to you guys? This one isn't simple

 

[tutmatt3]

No. I wouldn't put that in my display no matter what. It contains formalin which is a carcenogen. Every time you put your hand in the tank you are exposing yourself to it and the fish are breathing it in all the time. I save formalin for when I have no other options as a treatment. You'll want to run carbon and try to pull any Quick Cure out of the tank.

I suspect there could be more than one thing happening here. I see the white mark near the tail as well. Couple that with the heavy breathing, then the dots on the head.... it's a strange mix. I think we need to call in a second opinion here... @Humblefish @4FordFamily @Brew12 What does it seem like to you guys? This one isn't simple

Haha yupp, just my luck! Well I guess I'm blessed that I only have these 2x fish and not an entire system established. Lessons learned early regarding QT! smh

 

[Brew12]

I think it is shipping stress along with ich. If it were mine I would do a fw dip when transferring them to a qt and if no flukes would treat with copper

 

[tutmatt3]

I think it is shipping stress along with ich. If it were mine I would do a fw dip when transferring them to a qt and if no flukes would treat with copper

Thanks for chiming in! Setting up a 10g qt

 

[4FordFamily]

I think it is shipping stress along with ich. If it were mine I would do a fw dip when transferring them to a qt and if no flukes would treat with copper

I concur. Better safe than sorry, IMO