Clown triggerfish with bloated stomach

[NiBiRu]

This started around 1.5 days ago. I noticed his stomach was bloated and he went into hiding. It was impossible to catch.
Now I saw him "swimming" in the tank, flipping around so it was very easy to catch him.
Is there anything to do right now?

P.s - the tank has ich and us currently in hypo-salinity. Could it be the cause?

Thanks

 

[tzabor10]

Your video doesn’t show.
I’m sure the reef doctors will have some opinions on the salinity

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This started around 1.5 days ago. I noticed his stomach was bloated and he went into hiding. It was impossible to catch.
Now I saw him "swimming" in the tank, flipping around so it was very easy to catch him.
Is there anything to do right now?

P.s - the tank has ich and us currently in hypo-salinity. Could it be the cause?

Thanks

Welcome to Reef2Reef.

This is a complicated situation:

This looks like it may be ascites, a build up of fluid in the abdomen. This is caused by either liver and/or kidney failure.

Baby clown triggers are seasonal, and they are found in deep water. The divers then resort to cyanide to collect them. This in turn causes organ damage and some level of mortality in the first 40 days after they have been collected. That percentage is difficult to know for certain, but three studies I did on general fish from this region showed 40 to 65% mortality in fish suspected of being collected with cyanide.

However, the hyposalinity may contribute to the ascites. Fish tend to bloat when exposed to hypo, and I imagine that a fish with liver or kidney damage might even bloat more. What level salinity are you at?

Jay

 

[NiBiRu]

Welcome to Reef2Reef.

This is a complicated situation:

This looks like it may be ascites, a build up of fluid in the abdomen. This is caused by either liver and/or kidney failure.

Baby clown triggers are seasonal, and they are found in deep water. The divers then resort to cyanide to collect them. This in turn causes organ damage and some level of mortality in the first 40 days after they have been collected. That percentage is difficult to know for certain, but three studies I did on general fish from this region showed 40 to 65% mortality in fish suspected of being collected with cyanide.

However, the hyposalinity may contribute to the ascites. Fish tend to bloat when exposed to hypo, and I imagine that a fish with liver or kidney damage might even bloat more. What level salinity are you at?

Jay

Sorry for the late response, the fish died several hours after posting this message.
I dropped salinity to 1.009 over a period of several days.

Thanks for the very interesting information about baby clown triggers and general collection with cyanide. Is there any way to confirm whether my LFS is getting its fish from retailers that do not use cyanide for collection?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry for the late response, the fish died several hours after posting this message.
I dropped salinity to 1.009 over a period of several days.

Thanks for the very interesting information about baby clown triggers and general collection with cyanide. Is there any way to confirm whether my LFS is getting its fish from retailers that do not use cyanide for collection?

IMO - all baby clown triggers are being caught with cyanide. I know that is a powerful statement, but look at the scenario - these are collected only seasonally, in deep water where a diver's time is very limited. These fish hole up in coral, so are difficult to net unless you drive them out with cyanide. I have never seen these on a supplier's list except from countries that use cyanide (Indonesia and the Philippines). Finally, due to the way the market works, these baby triggers must sell for substantially less than larger ones, and the only way to get the price down is to collect a LOT of them, easily, and that means cyanide.

So, the main question is, what is the residual mortality rate on these fish from cyanide? Those three studies tracked mortality rates of fish from Indonesia and the Philippines compared to the control fish from Sri Lanka and Hawaii. As I mentioned, the 40 day rate ranged from around 40 to 65%, versus 9% in the controls fish. I did not have baby clown triggers in the data set though, because they were out of season when I ran the studies.

Jay

 

[NiBiRu]

ates of fish from Indonesia and the Philippines compared to the control fish from Sri Lanka and Hawaii. As I mentioned, the 40 day rate ranged from around 40 to 65%. I did not have baby clown triggers in the data set though, because they were out of season when I ran the studies.

Fascinating (and disturbing) information. Thanks

Usually when new fish arrive to LFS around me they advertise the location from where the fish arrived (Australia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Red sea, etc'..). Assuming the LFS would share name of the fish supplier, is there a way to confirm whether this supplier is cyanide safe or not? I'm generalizing the issue of clown triggers, if you state that Indonesia and Philippines are 'risky' in that sense I think I will stop buying any fish from these locations unless there's a way to confirm whether a supplier from these locations is safe or not..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Fascinating (and disturbing) information. Thanks

Usually when new fish arrive to LFS around me they advertise the location from where the fish arrived (Australia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Red sea, etc'..). Assuming the LFS would share name of the fish supplier, is there a way to confirm whether this supplier is cyanide safe or not? I'm generalizing the issue of clown triggers, if you state that Indonesia and Philippines are 'risky' in that sense I think I will stop buying any fish from these locations unless there's a way to confirm whether a supplier from these locations is safe or not..

I see that I forgot to add the mortality rate on the control fish (9%) in the comment above, so I corrected that.

Here is an article I wrote on sourcing marine fishes:

Sourcing Marine Fishes and Invertebrates

. Sourcing Marine Fishes and Invertebrates Experienced aquarists are aware that fishes from different regions of the world can have different levels of sustainability when acquired for their aquariums. The reasons for these differences may...

www.reef2reef.com

Now, sometimes, importers, etc. lie about the source of fish. It is well known for example, that Australian harlequin tuskfish do much better than those from SE Asia. Some dealers will label their fish as "Australian" then, in order to get top dollar for them.