Comparing lighting options until my head hurts

[jmatt]

I feel like I'm chasing my tail here, just going round and round, reading threads until I don't know what to think anymore.

Getting ready to light my new tank, a 30x48x17H lagoon peninsula. The aquastructure will be kinda like mushrooms: a base, a neck and a flat deck on top so that the corals will all sit pointing directly up... like a frag tank. In the spaces below I expect it will be somewhat shaded.

Kind of leaning toward Radions, but Neptune Sky is under consideration as well. Making this all more confusing is that I like aspects of both the Pro and Blue models.

So. Questions.

1) Given those dimensions, is four smaller XR15 models insanely overlit? Considering it to reduce shadows. Also, with 4, I could keep them higher over the tank.

2) Can I tweak a Pro so that it approaches the look of a Blue, if I so desire?

3) Is the G6 a substantial improvement over the G5? I gather the difference is a little more spread and a little more UV. Is it worth it? Can anyone attest to a bona-fide improvement in the spectrum that yields better growth or coloration?

4) I am actually considering 4 G5 XR15s over the G6. With 4, I don't need the wider spread and I have yet to hear anyone say that the G6 actually yields better results.

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[nick7948]

On my 90 gallon I have 3 Neptune lights, which barely fit over 48 inches. This tank is acro-only with a few torches, and I get around 500-600 par about 8 inches down, and about 300-350 par about 12 inches up, on average. I got a 3rd one because I was only getting around 200 par in the middle and my acro there wasn't coloring up. It doesn't sound like you're getting SPS, or much SPS so obviously that would be overkill. I had two for a while and think that's plenty for a mixed tank, even with SPS since LPS or softies can go in the middle or to the sides. I would think 3 15's would be fine in your scenario. I started with Radeon Pro 5 30's but switched to Neptune because the app was mostly unusable on Android over the course of around a year. The issues impacted both of my tanks, so it wasn't something strange with that setup. My other tank had XR 15 blues. (my wife's Apple phone seemed to work most of the time) Not sure if others had similar issues with Android but the reviews seemed to suggest so.

I probably like more blue that the average person but wasn't a fan of the Radeon blues. The reason is to maximize the power/par I needed all of the channels turned up, which made it too blue. (whole room was blue pretty much) When I turned down the blue lights it decreased the Par too much. Supposedly the G5's and higher can redistribute power to other channels, but it didn't appear to do it well for me. It may be less of an issue for you since you won't need as much par, especially if you go with 4 15's or 2 30's, but I'd still recommend against it unless AB+ isn't blue enough for you.

In regards to Neptune, I like having more control over things. I have a small box where I can push a button and cause the blues to be reduced for pictures, or the blues to be increased etc. Also the Apex app always works for me and the Radeon one was terrible. (at least for me on Android) The Radeons looked like they were probably made better, or at least felt that way, but I didn't compare par, or spread. They both can use Radeon mounting hardware as well.

 

[jmatt]

First, thanks for chiming in.

I've read about how unsatisfied some folks are with the Moebius app. I recently purchased an Apex A3 and if they hadn't touted that there would soon be a way to connect and control Radions, I would probably be going with Neptune Sky.

The small box for the Sky that enables you flip around modes... is that something that comes with the unit?

The extra spread on the G6 doesn't do anything for me. I would rather the light be shining more downward than sideways. The aquascape will be pretty shaded and I'd rather have more units covering the surface than centrally located units that spread wider.

Any other experiences or opinions out there?

 

[Hydrored]

Take a look at Orphek Icons, especially if you have concerns over light spill

 

[oreo54]

6 xr-15's "may" be overlit (or not)..but not 4.. besides at 30 wide you really need 2 rows regardless of intensity.
Each of 6 covering a 15x 15 area approx.
G6's have more diffuse spread therefore less concentrated par.
About 120 degree spread.
As such lights should be hung lower than "customary".
Pre-g6 24" sq was max, sweeter spot was like 17" square (round really ).

Don't count on tweaking a pro to look blue, just costs a lot of power.

If the pro is not "blue enough" for you get supplemental blue bars.

100gal tank

Maxspect, Mitras and Reefi use reflectors which can cut side glare considerably.

ReeFi Lab – Smart Aquarium Solutions

www.reefi-lab.com

Decide what is important to you.. needs/wants.
Since most modern leds use the heavy blue/ wide blue philosophy it would be difficult to find a "bad" spectrum.

In the "good old days" people would probably put two 250W metal halides plus 100-200W of t5 accent lights.
For "do anything" lighting in led it is safest to consider 75% (some say match wattage) of that.Like 450W spread out well.

A technical opinion not a "husbandry" opinion btw.

As to software, haven't found any that is perfect, anywhere..
Here is a fun chart to make your head spin more..

https://www.reefi-lab.com/wp351/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ReeFi_Uno_comparisons-scaled.jpg

Wattage/ functions (channels/control)/ colors you like/ price/ mounting ect.
Red sea reef is like 70% blue with a weak white channel. No way to get like 1400k look which you should be able to get w/ say a radion pro.

Besides being the weird one without reef tank I'm also the weird one that weighs how it looks to me over almost anything else.
A tank that has 1mm extra growth a week and looks "ehhh" to me is wasting my $$$'s.
High intensity light (sunscreen effect) and proper nutrition/environment should get you the color you need in the corals. "Seeing" it is another story.

 

[Jekyl]

As someone using just LED currently. I'd recommend T5 hybrid with kessils

 

[jmatt]

Take a look at Orphek Icons, especially if you have concerns over light spill

Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't really looked into them prior. That's a big LED fixture!

 

[nick7948]

First, thanks for chiming in.

I've read about how unsatisfied some folks are with the Moebius app. I recently purchased an Apex A3 and if they hadn't touted that there would soon be a way to connect and control Radions, I would probably be going with Neptune Sky.

The small box for the Sky that enables you flip around modes... is that something that comes with the unit?

The extra spread on the G6 doesn't do anything for me. I would rather the light be shining more downward than sideways. The aquascape will be pretty shaded and I'd rather have more units covering the surface than centrally located units that spread wider.

Any other experiences or opinions out there?

The small box that I was referring to is a breakout box with buttons and switches. You can find them on Ebay. You can tie other Apex tasks to it, like turning off certain devices when cleaning the tank or feeding the fish. Some of the people that sell them will let you customize how you want it, such as 6 buttons, 4 buttons and 2 switches etc.. You can even use the switches with PMUP's to do water changes if you don't have a DOS for that.

 

[Pntbll687]

T5/Led hybrid would be my vote. I have 60in wiht 3kessil 360we and can grow whatever I want.

Look into some bar lights that would be solid options as well. Quanta reef bars are moderately priced and can do the job with probably 3 or 4 bars.

 

[jmatt]

As someone using just LED currently. I'd recommend T5 hybrid with kessils

I've used T5 back in the day and liked them. I just feel like I should move to a more modern technology like LED. When you look at YT videos of frag grow out facilities, they have all moved to LED.

Any particular reason you disfavor LED over T5?

 

[jmatt]

The small box that I was referring to is a breakout box with buttons and switches. You can find them on Ebay. You can tie other Apex tasks to it, like turning off certain devices when cleaning the tank or feeding the fish. Some of the people that sell them will let you customize how you want it, such as 6 buttons, 4 buttons and 2 switches etc.. You can even use the switches with PMUP's to do water changes if you don't have a DOS for that.

So, the box is a way to tell Apex to change something without having to open the app on a tablet? Kind of a short cut, a quick way to change lights or flow? Huh. Interesting.

 

[Jekyl]

I've used T5 back in the day and liked them. I just feel like I should move to a more modern technology like LED. When you look at YT videos of frag grow out facilities, they have all moved to LED.

Any particular reason you disfavor LED over T5?

Regardless of the current trend toward LED, T5 and halide users still seem to get better growth. Fixed lighting vs diffused. Means easier on coral because there isn't a spotlighting effect. Hybrid gives best of both worlds.

 

[Pntbll687]

If the tank is 48" long take a look at kessil AP9X. I have the older version ap700, single fixture, lighting a 48x24x10 frag tank without issues.

Kessil ap9x, a reefbright or similar bar on each side, and you'd be all set to go.

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

What's your goal? Growth? Color? Spread? Appearance? Ease of use? I've tried/have them all (radion, Kessill, t5, Phillips) except Neptune's Sky (but have 4 CoralCare G2's inn my farm which are much better built and use the same tech, but wight 15lb each). The secret is that a photon is a photon, and they'll all grow coral depending on the par, spectrum, and spread requirements of said coral. Keep in mind that most of the "big boy" coral pimps are using radions, so if you buy from them, acclimation will typically be faster. Nobody is using certain types of lights that have been mentioned here, but that probably has to do with expected reliability based on some product teardowns.

 

[jmatt]

What's your goal? Growth? Color? Spread? Appearance? Ease of use? I've tried/have them all (radion, Kessill, t5, Phillips) except Neptune's Sky (but have 4 CoralCare G2's inn my farm which are much better built and use the same tech, but wight 15lb each). The secret is that a photon is a photon, and they'll all grow coral depending on the par, spectrum, and spread requirements of said coral. Keep in mind that most of the "big boy" coral pimps are using radions, so if you buy from them, acclimation will typically be faster. Nobody is using certain types of lights that have been mentioned here, but that probably has to do with expected reliability based on some product teardowns.

I would say my goals match almost everyone on this site: growth and appearance. The fun for me will be in propagating and achieving growth on soft corals and LPS. I'd eventually like to move on to SPS at some point. But! I also want to be able to pop the lights into a blue mode every now and again when friends come by.

And I think you make a very good point about acclimation from vendors already using radions. You see them in so many of their YT videos.

 

[jmatt]

If the tank is 48" long take a look at kessil AP9X. I have the older version ap700, single fixture, lighting a 48x24x10 frag tank without issues.

Kessil ap9x, a reefbright or similar bar on each side, and you'd be all set to go.

The Kessil's I've seen kinda drive my eyes crazy with shimmer. I like it but the Kessil's seem to deliver too much of it, imo.

 

[nick7948]

So, the box is a way to tell Apex to change something without having to open the app on a tablet? Kind of a short cut, a quick way to change lights or flow? Huh. Interesting.

Yea, exactly. Each button can tie back to multiple actions. Usually the button would be for time based actions, like turning off flow and return pump for 3 minutes to feed. The switch would typically be for continuous action, such as pushing water from a reservoir to your tank, which would require a flip to off when finished. I bought one for each of my two tanks and probably paid around $150 for the two, so they were a bit pricey.

 

[jmatt]

Alright, well to wrap this up I bought the last four G5 XR15 Pros they had in stock at my LFS. More overhead sources will diminish shadows (hopefully) thus negating whatever G6 "wide" coverage could provide.

 

[nick7948]

Alright, well to wrap this up I bought the last four G5 XR15 Pros they had in stock at my LFS. More overhead sources will diminish shadows (hopefully) thus negating whatever G6 "wide" coverage could provide.

Congrats! If you have kids show them the disco light template.

 

[jmatt]

Congrats! If you have kids show them the disco light template.

Yeah, I dunno why but that's what the kids always set the pool light to, the rapidly changing color setting.