Confused by nitrates

[bdub2583]

So I have a nitrate issue I can not seem to get to the bottom of. Tank is 2 year old 47G AIO. I run filter socks, 2 protein skimmers, and 2 Nero 5 wave makers. Stock list is 3 smaller clowns, 1 yellow watchman, 1 mandarin, and 1 medium blue eyed Kole, pistol shrimp, dozen or so hermits, and mixture of snails. I feed a small piece of nori every other day and 1/5 a cube of mysis a day. Socks are cleaned religiously every two days. Skimmers run 24/7 more on the wet side as far as skimate goes. Dose tropic Marin np bacto balance .4ml every night at lights out. PO4 stays 0.04-0.07 My nitrates according to Nyos kit were running 20-30ppm, I was fine with that. Then NO3 started to climb despite doing 5 gal water change every week with 0ppm nitrate rodi. I switched to Tropic Marin elmi np monitoring PO4 to maintain at least 0.04 by dosing. NO3 got to around 95ppm mark. I them purchased a Hannah HR nitrate checker to verify it wasn’t a test issue, flashing 75. Diluted down to 9ml of rodi and 1 ml of tank water, reading then was 31.1 so multiply by 10 to be 311ppm. Verified this with 4 test 2 different batches of reagent. I then performed a 40-45% water change and got them down to 179ppm. I then began a routine 25% water change every 4 days and now have NO3 down to 133. My issue I can’t figure out is why my nitrates are raising 10-15 ppm every 3 days, I’m calculating out to a 3.5ppm increase per day. Nothing has died, flow is good random pattern of 1100-1500gph to keep from detritus build up, feeding to me is very minimal, export with socks and 2 skimmers I would believe to be overkill and dosing 0.6ml of elmi np for 8 weeks. What am I missing or any suggestions?

 

[Miami Reef]

What brand of salt mix are you using?

 

[bdub2583]

Fritz rpm I checked after mixing to dismiss the salt mix. Getting a 0.7 reading 1hour after mixing

 

[Usarmy227]

Do you run any macro alage? What’s in your chambers?

How often do you change your filter socks?

 

[bluemon]

So I have a nitrate issue I can not seem to get to the bottom of. Tank is 2 year old 47G AIO. I run filter socks, 2 protein skimmers, and 2 Nero 5 wave makers. Stock list is 3 smaller clowns, 1 yellow watchman, 1 mandarin, and 1 medium blue eyed Kole, pistol shrimp, dozen or so hermits, and mixture of snails. I feed a small piece of nori every other day and 1/5 a cube of mysis a day. Socks are cleaned religiously every two days. Skimmers run 24/7 more on the wet side as far as skimate goes. Dose tropic Marin np bacto balance .4ml every night at lights out. PO4 stays 0.04-0.07 My nitrates according to Nyos kit were running 20-30ppm, I was fine with that. Then NO3 started to climb despite doing 5 gal water change every week with 0ppm nitrate rodi. I switched to Tropic Marin elmi np monitoring PO4 to maintain at least 0.04 by dosing. NO3 got to around 95ppm mark. I them purchased a Hannah HR nitrate checker to verify it wasn’t a test issue, flashing 75. Diluted down to 9ml of rodi and 1 ml of tank water, reading then was 31.1 so multiply by 10 to be 311ppm. Verified this with 4 test 2 different batches of reagent. I then performed a 40-45% water change and got them down to 179ppm. I then began a routine 25% water change every 4 days and now have NO3 down to 133. My issue I can’t figure out is why my nitrates are raising 10-15 ppm every 3 days, I’m calculating out to a 3.5ppm increase per day. Nothing has died, flow is good random pattern of 1100-1500gph to keep from detritus build up, feeding to me is very minimal, export with socks and 2 skimmers I would believe to be overkill and dosing 0.6ml of elmi np for 8 weeks. What am I missing or any suggestions?

Do you have any algae issues?

I am assuming no refugium? So no real export for nutrients besides mechanical filtration?

 

[bdub2583]

What brand of salt mix are you using?

Fritz rpm I checked after mixing to dismiss salt mix. Testing at 0.7 1 hour after mixing

 

[bdub2583]

Do you run any macro alage? What’s in your chambers?

How often do you change your filter socks?

No macro, 1st chamber each side is a sock, second chamber each side is protein skimmer, and third return chamber is pump and marine pure bio spheres

 

[bdub2583]

Do you have any algae issues?

I am assuming no refugium? So no real export for nutrients besides mechanical filtration?

No refugium and no algae issues other than film algae that I have to scrap every few days.

 

[Usarmy227]

No macro, 1st chamber each side is a sock, second chamber each side is protein skimmer, and third return chamber is pump and marine pure bio spheres

I think I would try 30% water change, fresh socks and removing both skimmers and see if it rises again and slowly add skimmer back . Maybe skimmers are leaching back into the system somehow?

 

[bdub2583]

I think I would try 30% water change, fresh socks and removing both skimmers and see if it rises again and slowly add skimmer back . Maybe skimmers are leaching back into the system somehow?

Hmm never thought of that, I empty collection cups before they overflow so I wouldn’t think it would but maybe the build up of gunk in the neck could leach back in some how.

 

[bluemon]

No macro, 1st chamber each side is a sock, second chamber each side is protein skimmer, and third return chamber is pump and marine pure bio spheres

My bet is on the bio spheres.

Bio media can sometimes become nitrate factories.

 

[Usarmy227]

Hmm never thought of that, I empty collection cups before they overflow so I wouldn’t think it would but maybe the build up of gunk in the neck could leach back in some how.

that’s what I’m thinking is happening and you have 2 of them. I wipe out my whole skimmer when I empty my cup. Just with paper towel.

 

[Usarmy227]

I would start from scratch and slowly add things back. Have you ever rinsed your bio media?

 

[bluemon]

To give you a bit of a case study.

I had ~70 ppm for the longest time, narrowed it down to my Theiling filter roller which is very poorly designed as it builds up inches of detritus in the filter chamber.

Cleaned it out, and installed a small powerhead in the filter box, and now, I run 10-30

 

[bdub2583]

My bet is on the bio spheres.

Bio media can sometimes become nitrate factories.

I’ve thought this too and was debating on beginning to pull them out slowly, I have plenty of rock so no real need for them.

 

[bdub2583]

I would start from scratch and slowly add things back. Have you ever rinsed your bio media?

Yes I try to do it every couple of water changes

 

[Usarmy227]

Yes I try to do it every couple of water changes

I would definitely start by pulling both skimmers and add them back if you don’t see anything change after you deep clean them.

 

[bdub2583]

I would definitely start by pulling both skimmers and add them back if you don’t see anything change after you deep clean them.

I’ll start there and my every 4 day water change is tomorrow so I’ll pull them and monitor after my water change

 

[Usarmy227]

I’ll start there and my every 4 day water change is tomorrow so I’ll pull them and monitor after my water change

Keep us updated! Would like to know what it is lol so if anyone else runs into the issue lol

 

[mcarroll]

So I have a nitrate issue I can not seem to get to the bottom of. Tank is 2 year old 47G AIO. I run filter socks, 2 protein skimmers, and 2 Nero 5 wave makers. Stock list is 3 smaller clowns, 1 yellow watchman, 1 mandarin, and 1 medium blue eyed Kole, pistol shrimp, dozen or so hermits, and mixture of snails. I feed a small piece of nori every other day and 1/5 a cube of mysis a day. Socks are cleaned religiously every two days. Skimmers run 24/7 more on the wet side as far as skimate goes. Dose tropic Marin np bacto balance .4ml every night at lights out. PO4 stays 0.04-0.07 My nitrates according to Nyos kit were running 20-30ppm, I was fine with that. Then NO3 started to climb despite doing 5 gal water change every week with 0ppm nitrate rodi. I switched to Tropic Marin elmi np monitoring PO4 to maintain at least 0.04 by dosing. NO3 got to around 95ppm mark. I them purchased a Hannah HR nitrate checker to verify it wasn’t a test issue, flashing 75. Diluted down to 9ml of rodi and 1 ml of tank water, reading then was 31.1 so multiply by 10 to be 311ppm. Verified this with 4 test 2 different batches of reagent. I then performed a 40-45% water change and got them down to 179ppm. I then began a routine 25% water change every 4 days and now have NO3 down to 133. My issue I can’t figure out is why my nitrates are raising 10-15 ppm every 3 days, I’m calculating out to a 3.5ppm increase per day. Nothing has died, flow is good random pattern of 1100-1500gph to keep from detritus build up, feeding to me is very minimal, export with socks and 2 skimmers I would believe to be overkill and dosing 0.6ml of elmi np for 8 weeks. What am I missing or any suggestions?

A skimmer isn't going to help much at all with dissolved nutrient levels, regardless of tuning or maintenance routine, but I'm still curious why you have two skimmers? Would a single unit be preferred since it would take up less space and be a little more efficient than two?

Here's the thing...

Dissolved nutrient levels correspond to feeding levels.

Feeding levels are dictated by your quantity (mass) of livestock.

Your tank is overstocked by most conventional definitions.

As a result you are overfeeding the tank in comparison to what it can process (not necessarily related to tank size) – this is how dissolved nutrients happen.

You might ALSO be overfeeding beyond what your livestock needs OR things that are not being well-utilized...mandarin and coral feedings are notoriously bad on this, just for two examples.

FYI, "export" can only mop up after "the mess" has been made. To prevent problems (eg algae blooms, etc) you will want to prevent the mess from happening instead cleaning it up afterward.

And if you aren't having any problems (Ie. if you're just trying to change the numbers on the test kits) then be careful about any changes you make. "High nutrients" aren't a problem per se....plenty of killer reef tanks out there have nutrient levels that are crazy high compared to what's typically been preached in the hobby. It's helpful IMO to remember that nitrogen and phosphorus are essential major nutrients – not "waste" or "toxic" or whatever. The distinction will help with understanding when something does go wrong. For example, it's more likely to be a problem if you have "zero nutrients" than if you have "high nutrients".

Real reefs do not have "zero nutrient" water, and the only reason water tests show low numbers at some reefs is from the reef using and recycling up 99.9% of the available nutrients.....NOT because there are no nutrients...not even because the water is clean....almost the opposite....the reef is there because of the available nutrients, but it's such a perfectly efficient ecosystem that the water is the way it is once the reef is established. This "clean" water is a result of the reef, not a precondition for it.

IMO, make sure you aren't wasting food in the tank. Broadcast feeding wastes A LOT if you are doing that...switch to target feeding, incidental feeding or figure something else out. If you are sure you aren't wasting food, then consider reducing the amount of livestock in the tank.....personally I'd re-home the Tang since the tank is not the right size for it anyway, but reduce livestock mass somehow. Less livestock = less feeding = less dissolved nutrients.

I would discontinue things like carbon dosing if you're still doing any "extras" like that. Reduce nutrient inputs and the problem will resolve on its own (and respond better to your cleanup efforts).