Confusing Torch Losses and Success Stories

[JoshB94]

Hey everyone!

Looking for some feedback on your success and failure rate of keeping aussie vs indo torches along with my current situation.

So I have 3 tanks that all are flourishing, fairly stable parameters around 8dkh, 36ppt salinity, 77 degrees, higher nutrients (20ish nitrates) and .14 phosphate on my Waterbox 230.6

I have healthy torches in all 3. However, the waterbox I have relatively unexplainable recent losses. About 3 months ago, I dragged a dragon soul triple. cracked the skeleton but it lived for about 6 weeks. It bailed out, expected. But then the double bailed a couple weeks later. Around the same time, another indo gold triple lost a head. Then a month later I lost 3 of 4 reaper indos. Another month later, 1 of a double head aussie gold. Today, my double aussie gold. I still have 5 frags totally about a dozen heads of happy torches along with good SPS growth and PE, a giant happy clam and overall good tank. Today i watched my double aussie start to peal/melt away. As I shut off the wavemaker, my harlequin tusk ripped off the remaining bit. I've wondered if a fish or creature is eating these torches as they are quickly disappearing but look to be melting. I cut apart the gold today and saw no worms or bugs. It smelled a bit rough. I'm wondering if BJD is happening. But my 20ish hammers are great.

Any advice, thoughts or similar stories are appreciated!

 

[JoshB94]

Additional information:

ICP results were good, low iodine and strontium were main result.

Torches have all been in the tank for 3-6 months

Located about 12" away and 4" below mp40 at 50%

Under radion g4 pros at 60%

Indo and Aussies were near each other but never appeared to be touching / fighting.

 

[dylandionysius]

Bump for you. I listen aussie gold recently. So I feel your pain

 

[MERKEY]

I'm sure you would notice BJD so unless you have seen it I doubt it is there.

This could be a bacterial infection but those are almost impossible to pinpoint. Adding beneficial bacteria to fight any bad thats in there could help stabilize the system.

How do the skeletons look and how long does it take for the flesh to receed from around the stock to gone?

Any swings lately in alk or phos?

Have you taken a par reading? I run my radions xr30g4 at 25% on a waterbox 220.6 and the torches are getting around 200-250 but they had to be acclimated up to that par. When we first set the tank up we had ours at 45% and we were about to cook the corals. Possibly not an issue but just a thought

 

[JoshB94]

@MERKEY Thanks. I will look into adding beneficial bacteria. As I'm leaning towards it being bacterial. skeletons look normal, no rot, very white inside once empty. The loss is very fast. One or two days of not fully opening then gone. Usually overnight.

I haven't mapped par since I added a new light and upped the intensity. I'm assuming they're around 300-350 though. No alk swings, but phos was kinda high then came.back down, starting to creep up.

 

[MERKEY]

@MERKEY Thanks. I will look into adding beneficial bacteria. As I'm leaning towards it being bacterial. skeletons look normal, no rot, very white inside once empty. The loss is very fast. One or two days of not fully opening then gone. Usually overnight.

I haven't mapped par since I added a new light and upped the intensity. I'm assuming they're around 300-350 though. No alk swings, but phos was kinda high then came.back down, starting to creep up.

Have you noticed and dulling of color?

On thing you can try is to drop the torches down to the ground around 200 par and see how they react it may be worth a try since they are already bailing.

Or really try to counter the bacterial infection with dips to clean.

What was high phos? And how do you keep it down? This could contribute.
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

 

[Tamberav]

I have had BJD twice but it never killed any of my hammers. Besides visible brown jelly...BJD kind of smells awful. I could actually smell it by taking out a frag before seeing the BJD. Could smell it inside the skeleton. It did not claim all my torches though.

I also noticed torches seem to recover less often from damage. I could manhandle my hammers and it will be fine but the torch will take it personal

Aussie golds seem to be more sensitive than indo's.

 

[shakygator]

Aussie gold is the only one I have had issues with. I have several hammers/frogspawns as well as various indo golds and some highlighters and no issues with any of them. I have lost a cristata and 2 highlighters but that's only because my lemonpeel was eating them (he's been banished).

 

[JoshB94]

Aussie gold is the only one I have had issues with. I have several hammers/frogspawns as well as various indo golds and some highlighters and no issues with any of them. I have lost a cristata and 2 highlighters but that's only because my lemonpeel was eating them (he's been banished).

That seems to be the common theme. Very rarely do I see an aussie gold colony, but plenty of home grown indo colonies. I did lose some indos though from this issue which makes it frustrating.

@MERKEY I didn't see much dulling. In fact, this aussie gold this week was the brightest one I've ever seen. very high quality aussie with long extension and vibrant gold. I think my phosphate hit .3 I used gfo and water changes to bring it down.

 

[BobbyCline]

Indo success rate near 100%

Aussie success rate near 0%

 

[DRW0212]

I’ve also had great success with indo torches but no luck with Aussie

 

[shakygator]

I’ve also had great success with indo torches but no luck with Aussie

FWIW I believe the "highlighters" I have are aussie and I have no issues with those - just aussie golds.

 

[dylandionysius]

Why is it that we in modern reefing have such issues with Aussie golds?

 

[zuri]

imo the problem with aussie's is they give you no time to adjust placement it's ither nail it first time or stress an die over a few days

 

[JoshB94]

Well, I rescaped my tank today to plant some of my acros. I had left my last aussie gold behind a rock in low flow to see if it'd recover. As soon as it caught some flow it broke up into this. Between the aussie golds and two aussie elegances I've lost, I may be sticking to Indo

 

[kartrsu]

Sorry for your losses man. I recently picked up an Aussie Gold and it had finally adjusted to my tank. I did a lot of TLC, feeding and making sure the lights weren't too strong, low to moderate flow, make sure water chemistry and nutrients were good. Polyp extension was great and whatever tissue recession it had, it eventually grew back. I was out of the woods until I introduced some wild sand to fight dinos and probably introduced something terrible to my tank. The pain ensued and it has been a long road to recovery (2 months or so) and it still hasn't returned to its prior glory. Yet my indo torch survived the debacle unscathed, so I echo your preference for indo torches.

Not sure how long you had these corals, but I keep mine at reasonable par (~100-150ish) because that's what the seller was keeping his at successfully. I haven't bumped it up yet, but perhaps the light might be way too strong and your torches finally couldn't take it ...

 

[NickCage007]

I recently went thru the same thing. I had some torches that were over a year old, had been fragged a few times, just well adjusted torches, and some new ones. No recent additions, atleast not in the last month or so, but i added a mushroom plate, but it was dipped, well..

Anyway, i experieced the same thing. First, a torxh, a double, one side went down, tear on the outer edge of the polyp. Head appeared ok, and within days, gone. Then a torch on the opposite side of the tank, same thing. Then another. Then another. Heads went so fast, and there seemed to be nothing i could do. Mine, did take one frogspawn, but no hammers. Same way.
I did lots of waterchanges. Removed any pieces with any signs of any issues.

Like you mentioned, i could smell them, when pulling them out, and they appeared totally fine, on some heads, that the insides were rotten on, and i trashed them also.
Was the craziest thing ive ever dealt with in the hobby.
I believe it to be bacterial. I just dont kno where it came from.
I now run a uv, extra carbon, and pray i never experience it again.

Never found out what it was, either.

 

[kartrsu]

I recently went thru the same thing. I had some torches that were over a year old, had been fragged a few times, just well adjusted torches, and some new ones. No recent additions, atleast not in the last month or so, but i added a mushroom plate, but it was dipped, well..

Anyway, i experieced the same thing. First, a torxh, a double, one side went down, tear on the outer edge of the polyp. Head appeared ok, and within days, gone. Then a torch on the opposite side of the tank, same thing. Then another. Then another. Heads went so fast, and there seemed to be nothing i could do. Mine, did take one frogspawn, but no hammers. Same way.
I did lots of waterchanges. Removed any pieces with any signs of any issues.

Like you mentioned, i could smell them, when pulling them out, and they appeared totally fine, on some heads, that the insides were rotten on, and i trashed them also.
Was the craziest thing ive ever dealt with in the hobby.
I believe it to be bacterial. I just dont kno where it came from.
I now run a uv, extra carbon, and pray i never experience it again.

Never found out what it was, either.

Sorry to hear your losses. I’ve got a few expensive torches that also went through a bacterial mess. I added live sand and mud from IPSF. After introducing, all my euphyllia and other LPS started suffering with recession, losing zooxanthellae, and weird tentacle curling. It’s been a battle, but I managed to save them via repeated dips in iodine and transferring them to a hospital tank. It works like magic. Anytime my corals look crappy outside of lighting or parameters, I dip in iodine. See the before and after on my gold torch.

Recently had one head of my dragon soul start to lose PE, same formula and it’s back to normal in a few days.

 

[KTTX]

Sorry to hear your losses. I’ve got a few expensive torches that also went through a bacterial mess. I added live sand and mud from IPSF. After introducing, all my euphyllia and other LPS started suffering with recession, losing zooxanthellae, and weird tentacle curling. It’s been a battle, but I managed to save them via repeated dips in iodine and transferring them to a hospital tank. It works like magic. Anytime my corals look crappy outside of lighting or parameters, I dip in iodine. See the before and after on my gold torch.

Recently had one head of my dragon soul start to lose PE, same formula and it’s back to normal in a few days.

How much Iodine?

 

[kartrsu]

I use enough to make a dark tea color (lipton) and dip for 5 mins. You can go lighter (green tea?) and go for 10 mins.