Controller recommendations

[Zeeter]

I use Hydros. My equipment is an X4, X10, 2 XP8s, 2 WiFi strips, a Wave Engine LE, and the iV.

All of the controller parts work great and I'm monitoring Hydros via the web app all day. That said, I'm not happy with the iV.

It took me a month to get the iV alkalinity testing dialed in, and I never did manage to get an accurate salinity reading. Then one day my kH was off a bit compared to Hanna so I recalibrated the probe. For two days I kept getting alerts on my phone that my pH and alkalinity were dangerously low, even though they weren't.

I went through several more calibrations, even buying more calibration fluid to see if that was the problem. It wasn't. Eventually I got it close enough in line with Hanna to trust it. Then of course it did the same thing all over again.

I went and bought an Alkatronic. That very night I was getting accurate readings compared to Hanna and the pH probe in my sump. It's the very definition of set it and forget it - other than recalibrating every month or so.

I suppose to someone who is willing to sit there for hours, diligently working with the Hydros IV it would work fine. I didn't have the time or patience for that when there are other products that are proven to work more or less out of the box. In my humble opinion, the Hydros iV is not yet ready for prime time.

 

[dwest]

I was a reefer for 20 or so years before I got a controller. I bought an Apex in 2018 and it’s been great. Except for the EB832. I replaced that with an EB8 after about a year of unreliable use.

I still keep my ATO, AWC, and 2 part (mostly) off the Apex as I use Spectrapure systems with their own controllers for these.

 

[n2585722]

I use Hydros. My equipment is an X4, X10, 2 XP8s, 2 WiFi strips, a Wave Engine LE, and the iV.

All of the controller parts work great and I'm monitoring Hydros via the web app all day. That said, I'm not happy with the iV.

It took me a month to get the iV alkalinity testing dialed in, and I never did manage to get an accurate salinity reading. Then one day my kH was off a bit compared to Hanna so I recalibrated the probe. For two days I kept getting alerts on my phone that my pH and alkalinity were dangerously low, even though they weren't.

I went through several more calibrations, even buying more calibration fluid to see if that was the problem. It wasn't. Eventually I got it close enough in line with Hanna to trust it. Then of course it did the same thing all over again.

I went and bought an Alkatronic. That very night I was getting accurate readings compared to Hanna and the pH probe in my sump. It's the very definition of set it and forget it - other than recalibrating every month or so.

I suppose to someone who is willing to sit there for hours, diligently working with the Hydros IV it would work fine. I didn't have the time or patience for that when there are other products that are proven to work more or less out of the box. In my humble opinion, the Hydros iV is not yet ready for prime time.

Were your readings too high when they were off? I had to raise the pH probe a little higher to help with that. Also air bubbles in the reagent tubing will also cause a high reading. I put a temp sensor in my iV and set the salinity probe compensation to that sensor and now my salinity reading are close. I also use that temp sensor for compensation for the pH probe also. I did not have the issue during the summer months. It was when it got colder that I started having and issue. when it would get cooler my salinity would show as low as 33.8.

 

[paintman]

For some folks the tank and animals are nothing more than life support for the the wow tech that is front and centre

EXACTLY blinky blink, drip drip drip!

 

[tmccaff]

It comes down to this:

Apex

Pros:
Customer support huge forum customer base
Pre-programmed
Long run probably cheapest of the big 3
wired+wireless controller
dashboard apex fusion the best in my opinion
Has Triton System

Cons:
unreliable some modules break
modules system can be a lot of clutter
ugly look
Probe salinity especially don't work as expected

GHL

Pros:
Most reliable hardware well built
cleanest look looks more modern
Probe calibration works the best out of the big 3
Advanced programming can be done but this is also a con

Cons:
Support issues can take awhile to get back
Wireless can be sketchy not hardwired like Apex can.
Programming can be difficult
Software got better over the years still needs some work
No Triton system they do have ION but has supplies issues.

Hydros

Pros:
Each controller is it's own brain so if one breaks you still have control of system
Support is good but not as good as Apex since it's newer
Easiest to program
Wireless Outlet Support
Can get data from Mastertronic and KH Carer


Cons:
Not much out there yet since it's newer
Wireless not hardwired
Not much advanced programming


If you never had a controller before I would recommend Hydros since it's so easy to use and program. However, if you want reliability looks for sure go with GHL. If you don't care about looks and want to do everything possible go with Apex.

 

[n2585722]

Hydros

Pros:
Each controller is it's own brain so if one breaks you still have control of system
Support is good but not as good as Apex since it's newer
Easiest to program
Wireless Outlet Support
Can get data from Mastertronic and KH Carer


Cons:
Not much out there yet since it's newer
Wireless not hardwired
Not much advanced programming


If you never had a controller before I would recommend Hydros since it's so easy to use and program. However, if you want reliability looks for sure go with GHL. If you don't care about looks and want to do everything possible go with Ap

Not sure where you get not much advanced programming. I have my Hydros doing quite a bit. It controls my pumps, heaters, lighting, cooling fans at the tank. I also have it controlling my dosing using dynamic dosing depending on the alkalinity testing which it does. I also control my RODI unit and my mixing station. It also controls my ATO and AWC. I have a DI reservoir in my garage with my RODI unit when it goes low the Hydros refills it from the RODI unit. I also have a fresh saltwater reservoir that is used for the AWC fill. When it goes low and the mix tank water is ready to use it will transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank. Once the water transfer completes it refills the mix tank from the RODI unit. It also turns the mixing pump on and off depending on water level in the mix tank. Once the mix tank is refilled all I have to do is add the salt mix and then press a button to let the Hydros know that the mix tank is ready for use. Also it turns on the RODI every 4 hours to refill a RO bladder tank that is used by the ice maker in the refrigerator. That is a non aquarium related use though, but it already has control of the RODI unit. I consider some of that advanced programming. That was setup without any coding.

 

[tmccaff]

Not sure where you get not much advanced programming. I have my Hydros doing quite a bit. It controls my pumps, heaters, lighting, cooling fans at the tank. I also have it controlling my dosing using dynamic dosing depending on the alkalinity testing which it does. I also control my RODI unit and my mixing station. It also controls my ATO and AWC. I have a DI reservoir in my garage with my RODI unit when it goes low the Hydros refills it from the RODI unit. I also have a fresh saltwater reservoir that is used for the AWC fill. When it goes low and the mix tank water is ready to use it will transfer the water from the mix tank to the fresh saltwater tank. Once the water transfer completes it refills the mix tank from the RODI unit. It also turns the mixing pump on and off depending on water level in the mix tank. Once the mix tank is refilled all I have to do is add the salt mix and then press a button to let the Hydros know that the mix tank is ready for use. Also it turns on the RODI every 4 hours to refill a RO bladder tank that is used by the ice maker in the refrigerator. That is a non aquarium related use though, but it already has control of the RODI unit. I consider some of that advanced programming. That was setup without any coding.

I am saying that GHL and Apex let you make a lot more advanced programming features not implemented yet. Hydros also no way to get Salinity probe unless you get the X10 which is a waste for some. I have the Hydros happy with it but I wish never switched from GHL. Issue with GHL uses a lot of programming logic and can get lost on what you actually did. I made a suggestion while back if you can name the program logics.

 

[n2585722]

I am saying that GHL and Apex let you make a lot more advanced programming features not implemented yet. Hydros also no way to get Salinity probe unless you get the X10 which is a waste for some. I have the Hydros happy with it but I wish never switched from GHL. Issue with GHL uses a lot of programming logic and can get lost on what you actually did. I made a suggestion while back if you can name the program logics.

I don't know what advanced features you are referring to since I have got mine to automate some complex things for me. So far I have not found anything that I wanted to do with that I could not find a way.

 

[Zeeter]

Were your readings too high when they were off? I had to raise the pH probe a little higher to help with that. Also air bubbles in the reagent tubing will also cause a high reading. I put a temp sensor in my iV and set the salinity probe compensation to that sensor and now my salinity reading are close. I also use that temp sensor for compensation for the pH probe also. I did not have the issue during the summer months. It was when it got colder that I started having and issue. when it would get cooler my salinity would show as low as 33.8.

My pH and Alk readings were way too low. The salinity was way too high. All of the readings to off too far to use the offsets.

I don't mean to sound harsh towards the IV; a lot of people have no problem whatsoever with it.

 

[TehBrainz]

GHL is for engineers, Apex is for iPhone Users

As an engineer that uses GHL, this feels spot on haha.

My LFS HATES GHL, but I love my system and the way it works makes sense. Just takes some getting used to with the language

 

[tmccaff]

I miss my GHL not saying Hydros is bad it's just GHL way more cleaner looking.

 

[AquaLogic]

Hydros 100%. It's easier to use, more modern, and cheaper.

 

[ThaBeast]

Do you guys have any recommendations on the controller? I am debating on either going with Apex or Hydros...

I ran Apex for a long time. The fisher price look of the new stuff and steady decline of customer support has me running GHL now. GHL is a little more involved to program but doesnt have the glitches and idiosyncrasies the Apex gear had. My issue with hydros is it is with the distributor. They may have changed but years ago they were notorious for poor customer service.

 

[TehBrainz]

I know this is mostly an Apex vs. Hydros discussion, but I've also had INCREDIBLY fast shipping of anything I purchase directly from GHL's website.

Albeit, I'm in Charleston and the distribution center is in Wilmington, NC (3.5ish hours). That doesn't change the fact that I've ordered sensors and even the Maxi Doser 2.2 and it was packed and shipped same day with arrival by 2pm the following day.

YMMV depending on location.

 

[n2585722]

My pH and Alk readings were way too low. The salinity was way too high. All of the readings to off too far to use the offsets.

I don't mean to sound harsh towards the IV; a lot of people have no problem whatsoever with it.

You were reading the sampled inputs and not the realtime inputs. The realtime inputs are only good just before the start of the alkalinity test. As an example the sampled reading on mine are in the first row of inputs and show as time and date of that reading. The realtime input are in the second row near the end and you can see there is a difference in the readings. Also there is a pH reading from my sump in the first row also. It is the one with no date time. The high salinity was strange. Were you using the Apera salinity probe? If it is the one from CoralVue you need to use the probe K factor of 10 for it to work correctly since that probe is a K10 probe.

 

[Zeeter]

You were reading the sampled inputs and not the realtime inputs. The realtime inputs are only good just before the start of the alkalinity test. As an example the sampled reading on mine are in the first row of inputs and show as time and date of that reading. The realtime input are in the second row near the end and you can see there is a difference in the readings. Also there is a pH reading from my sump in the first row also. It is the one with no date time. The high salinity was strange. Were you using the Apera salinity probe? If it is the one from CoralVue you need to use the probe K factor of 10 for it to work correctly since that probe is a K10 probe.

I know what the difference is between the real time and sampled inputs. If I was accidentally reading the real time inputs (which is what I assume you meant to say above) I would never have been able to get it dialed in for brief periods.
I also was using 10K for the salinity probe.
Support and I worked for months on this issue.

 

[n2585722]

I know what the difference is between the real time and sampled inputs. If I was accidentally reading the real time inputs (which is what I assume you meant to say above) I would never have been able to get it dialed in for brief periods.
I also was using 10K for the salinity probe.
Support and I worked for months on this issue.

Sorry that was worded wrong. I was meaning to ask if you were reading them but apparently you had the right ones. The salinity is quite temp sensitive. If you calibrate at one temp and read at another it can cause quite a difference in the reading. I got around that by using one of those caps that come on the pH or ORP probes and partially filling it with enough of the calibration fluid so when the probe is inserted it is above the holes in the side. Once tight I placed it in the sump with the top of the cap just above water level. I waited quite some time and then calibrated with the temp sensor in the sump used as the compensation temp for it. I repeated this step for the second calibration point. Once calibrate I placed it back in the iV and switch the compensation temp to the temp sensor I have in the iV. I am guessing you have it in the sump now if it is not in the iV. I have one in my sump and it always wants to read 1 higher than the one in the iV. The iV is close to my PinPoint salinity meter.

 

[Danny McElroy]

Do you guys have any recommendations on the controller? I am debating on either going with Apex or Hydros...

I have and enjoy the Neptune Apex controller, especially because of the Trident, however beware that the new A3 controller has a lot of defects and rarely works well out of the box. I have had 2 of them fail brand new on new installs for our maintenance clients and our wholesale import shop. One would not work from the jump, and had to be returned to Neptune, the other continuously dumped modules and constantly had to be reprogrammed. I highly recommend you go with a pre owned A2 unit if you are going with Neptune. Also beware that since Aperture bought Neptune, the wait times for support are very very long, and they recently moved locations and you cannot get replacement parts. Aperture has not managed the transition well, so it's a lot to overcome to be able to use the Trident. Honestly, if Hydros or GHL had a Trident I would already have replaced all of my Neptune gear.

 

[Danny McElroy]

They all have bugs.

Pick your

I’d argue the opposite is true, having had both and being a very senior software engineer.

GHL is typical German engineering. The hardware is great, the design and thought process is excellent. The software is very mature, but it’s stuck in the past, and I don’t think it’s very flexible at all, it works exactly how they design it to. The configurability of it is a nightmare to work with, it’s absolutely not for engineers. They’re trying to make scripting simple, whilst making it terrible at the same time.
GHL is the iPhone (if iPhone was made by Germans who work with software always ten years behind).

Apex is by far more flexible, and by far more appropriate for engineers. It allows actual scripting, without silly rules and restrictions.
Apex is the Android.

Totally agree, just wish they would build higher quality hardware and improve support lead times.

 

[Zeeter]

Sorry that was worded wrong. I was meaning to ask if you were reading them but apparently you had the right ones. The salinity is quite temp sensitive. If you calibrate at one temp and read at another it can cause quite a difference in the reading. I got around that by using one of those caps that come on the pH or ORP probes and partially filling it with enough of the calibration fluid so when the probe is inserted it is above the holes in the side. Once tight I placed it in the sump with the top of the cap just above water level. I waited quite some time and then calibrated with the temp sensor in the sump used as the compensation temp for it. I repeated this step for the second calibration point. Once calibrate I placed it back in the iV and switch the compensation temp to the temp sensor I have in the iV. I am guessing you have it in the sump now if it is not in the iV. I have one in my sump and it always wants to read 1 higher than the one in the iV. The iV is close to my PinPoint salinity meter.

Always before calibrating I would float my calibration fluids in the sump for an hour or so (or overnight if I forgot about them) to match the temp.

I'm sure if I kept at it I could get it dialed in again; just that it was getting very frustrating. It seemed that every time I tried to calibrate it took me a week of recalibrations to get it sorted out again. All the while it was off far enough from my Hanna kH tester and my sump's pH tester that I never trusted the readings. This went on long enough that it wasn't a matter of residual oil on the probe.

Even with using old pH calibration fluid for the Alkatronic I am getting readings close to what I get with other tests.

Hydros is an advanced system; it just takes more work than I think should be necessary at this point.