Controller recommendations

[Peair]

If you have $800 bucks, the X10 has most of their features.

 

[Moonraker76]

I know this is mostly an Apex vs. Hydros discussion, but I've also had INCREDIBLY fast shipping of anything I purchase directly from GHL's website.

Albeit, I'm in Charleston and the distribution center is in Wilmington, NC (3.5ish hours). That doesn't change the fact that I've ordered sensors and even the Maxi Doser 2.2 and it was packed and shipped same day with arrival by 2pm the following day.

YMMV depending on location.

I have just spent close to £10k on GHL equipment which will be used on our new set up so glad to hear the shipping will be quick.

Obviously, they aren't selling or taking orders for the ION Director but I've also ordered the Alkatronic/Dosetronic bundle and the Mastertronic for testing for another £2700.

So an outlay of £12700 (roughly 16k $$) on controllers. That may seem excessive but that's for a few tanks so will likely be spread around. I plan a 2500 litre DT with standalone coral and invert tanks. I am a tech/gadget junkie though!

A couple of QT tanks will be a bit more basic but it'll enable me to see how I like GHL. Hydros is hard to find in the UK so it comes down to a GHL/Apex/Reefkeeper choice.

Further down the line I may run Apex on one of the other tanks to compare the two as automation would be ideal across all our tanks.

 

[TehBrainz]

I have just spent close to £10k on GHL equipment which will be used on our new set up so glad to hear the shipping will be quick.

Obviously, they aren't selling or taking orders for the ION Director but I've also ordered the Alkatronic/Dosetronic bundle and the Mastertronic for testing for another £2700.

So an outlay of £12700 (roughly 16k $$) on controllers. That may seem excessive but that's for a few tanks so will likely be spread around. I plan a 2500 litre DT with standalone coral and invert tanks. I am a tech/gadget junkie though!

A couple of QT tanks will be a bit more basic but it'll enable me to see how I like GHL. Hydros is hard to find in the UK so it comes down to a GHL/Apex/Reefkeeper choice.

Further down the line I may run Apex on one of the other tanks to compare the two as automation would be ideal across all our tanks.

FWIW, I haven't dealt with the Europe store so I can't speak to how quickly they are able to turn product. I don't see much of a reason why it would be different though. Their sensors and hardware seems to have a "legacy" feel to it in terms of supply (except for ION-D, but that's a whole other story).

Take your time and read through the manuals and work everything out on "paper" first. Once you start to understand the nuances you can figure most things out. Usually it also turns out to be an easier solution than you originally had thought.

Benefit for you being in the UK is the time difference for support (if you need any) is non-existent. All true support tickets go to Germany, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Moonraker76]

FWIW, I haven't dealt with the Europe store so I can't speak to how quickly they are able to turn product. I don't see much of a reason why it would be different though. Their sensors and hardware seems to have a "legacy" feel to it in terms of supply (except for ION-D, but that's a whole other story).

Take your time and read through the manuals and work everything out on "paper" first. Once you start to understand the nuances you can figure most things out. Usually it also turns out to be an easier solution than you originally had thought.

Benefit for you being in the UK is the time difference for support (if you need any) is non-existent. All true support tickets go to Germany, as far as I'm aware.

One thing that guided me the GHL route was the time difference/support in Germany (so only an hour different).

Not heard the best of things with Apex in terms of some supply and getting parts/things fixed.

Reef Factory could also be an option I guess.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

@MonoZXM , This may have been asked and answered in the last 4 pages, but what specifically do you want to control? If you just want redundancy for your heater and maybe a feed mode for your pumps, then all 3 of the major controllers are likely overkill...

 

[n2585722]

Always before calibrating I would float my calibration fluids in the sump for an hour or so (or overnight if I forgot about them) to match the temp.

I'm sure if I kept at it I could get it dialed in again; just that it was getting very frustrating. It seemed that every time I tried to calibrate it took me a week of recalibrations to get it sorted out again. All the while it was off far enough from my Hanna kH tester and my sump's pH tester that I never trusted the readings. This went on long enough that it wasn't a matter of residual oil on the probe.

Even with using old pH calibration fluid for the Alkatronic I am getting readings close to what I get with other tests.

Hydros is an advanced system; it just takes more work than I think should be necessary at this point.

It took my KH Carer about a moth to stabilize the readings after I started using it. So that could something that Kamoer pumps do when new, but not sure. The X10 also has Kamoer pumps.

 

[MonoZXM]

@MonoZXM , This may have been asked and answered in the last 4 pages, but what specifically do you want to control? If you just want redundancy for your heater and maybe a feed mode for your pumps, then all 3 of the major controllers are likely overkill...

I've got a 100-gallon tank, and I'm looking for a controller to manage all my equipment – ATO, return pump, skimmer, you name it. Plus, I need something to monitor my tank while I'm on vacation and an auto tester for at least alkalinity with accurate results.

Initially, I was leaning towards an Apex system cuz pretty much all the coral stores are using it. However, recent reviews regarding their customer service, internet connection, and equipment reliability have made me reconsider. After reading everyone's comments, it sounds like Hydro offers more up-to-date technology and reliable equipment. So, should I go with Hydro and add an Alkatronic tester?

 

[n2585722]

I've got a 100-gallon tank, and I'm looking for a controller to manage all my equipment – ATO, return pump, skimmer, you name it. Plus, I need something to monitor my tank while I'm on vacation and an auto tester for at least alkalinity with accurate results.

Initially, I was leaning towards an Apex system cuz pretty much all the coral stores are using it. However, recent reviews regarding their customer service, internet connection, and equipment reliability have made me reconsider. After reading everyone's comments, it sounds like Hydro offers more up-to-date technology and reliable equipment. So, should I go with Hydro and add an Alkatronic tester?

You can use the Alkatronic, KH Carer or the Hydros iV X10 combination for alkalinity testing. With the iV X10 you can also get sampled pH and salinity readings. The Salinity probe is sold separate from the X10 but the X10 does come with a pH probe and a temp sensor. The alkalinity testing requires three dosing pumps. The X10 has 4. Two of the three pumps need to be precision pumps which the X10 pump are. If you want you can get a Hydros simple doser that connects to a drive port for the drain pump for iV testing. That would give you 2 pumps on the X10 for dosing. The X10 has 2 drive ports but 1 would be needed for the stirrer in the iV. The probe port on the X10 would be used for a pH probe in the iV. The X10 has a salinity port and it is the only Hydros controller at this time that has that port. The X10 also has 4 sense ports one could be used for the temp sensor. When I first got a X10 and iV i set it up as a stand alone controller for about three months. So I added a simple doser for the drain pump. I used 2 of the dosing pumps on the X10 to dynamically dose All For Reef and a KH buffer using the alkalinity readings. I did eventually add it to my collective. So now I have the sense ports in use. One is used for temp, one for a flow sensor, one for a peak detector and one for a water level sensor in the sump. If you have need for AC control then the XP8 is another controller you may want. I has 8 controlled AC outlets. The XP8 has no inputs on it so for input controlled outputs you would need to have another controller with those inputs. You would need to create a collective. In a collective the controller that are members will share all inout and outputs with each other and it acts like one large controller. So you can just add new controllers as you need them for the specific inputs and output you will need. The controllers in the collective are connected together using command bus cables. So they will communicate with each outer with a wired connection. They will each still need access to wifi to communicate with the cloud and any wifi device you might have. There is a wifi fish feeder and wifi power strips you can get. I would only use the wifi strips with non critical devices. When the controller and wifi strips loose communication with each other the outputs on the wifi strips will remain in whatever state they are in when communication is lost until communication is restored. The only exception is when power is lost. Then the wifi strip will boot up and go to the off state on all outputs until commanded to go to another state.

 

[MonoZXM]

You can use the Alkatronic, KH Carer or the Hydros iV X10 combination for alkalinity testing. With the iV X10 you can also get sampled pH and salinity readings. The Salinity probe is sold separate from the X10 but the X10 does come with a pH probe and a temp sensor. The alkalinity testing requires three dosing pumps. The X10 has 4. Two of the three pumps need to be precision pumps which the X10 pump are. If you want you can get a Hydros simple doser that connects to a drive port for the drain pump for iV testing. That would give you 2 pumps on the X10 for dosing. The X10 has 2 drive ports but 1 would be needed for the stirrer in the iV. The probe port on the X10 would be used for a pH probe in the iV. The X10 has a salinity port and it is the only Hydros controller at this time that has that port. The X10 also has 4 sense ports one could be used for the temp sensor. When I first got a X10 and iV i set it up as a stand alone controller for about three months. So I added a simple doser for the drain pump. I used 2 of the dosing pumps on the X10 to dynamically dose All For Reef and a KH buffer using the alkalinity readings. I did eventually add it to my collective. So now I have the sense ports in use. One is used for temp, one for a flow sensor, one for a peak detector and one for a water level sensor in the sump. If you have need for AC control then the XP8 is another controller you may want. I has 8 controlled AC outlets. The XP8 has no inputs on it so for input controlled outputs you would need to have another controller with those inputs. You would need to create a collective. In a collective the controller that are members will share all inout and outputs with each other and it acts like one large controller. So you can just add new controllers as you need them for the specific inputs and output you will need. The controllers in the collective are connected together using command bus cables. So they will communicate with each outer with a wired connection. They will each still need access to wifi to communicate with the cloud and any wifi device you might have. There is a wifi fish feeder and wifi power strips you can get. I would only use the wifi strips with non critical devices. When the controller and wifi strips loose communication with each other the outputs on the wifi strips will remain in whatever state they are in when communication is lost until communication is restored. The only exception is when power is lost. Then the wifi strip will boot up and go to the off state on all outputs until commanded to go to another state.

Thanks for the response. All three combinations are way beyond my budget. I guess I will go with Hydro X10 and hope Hydro IV will give me consistent testing results for alk.

 

[strich]

I'm currently investigating a controller and hardware solution myself. I have highly specific plans and will likely use ReefPi or my own setup (as a programmer) to run various parts of automation over the top of whatever hardware I need. However I don't necessarily want to get bogged down in DIY hardware too. IE I'm happy to outsource the hardware of probes and other instruments (dosing machines, pumps, etc) to whatever brand has a good API or controller framework that is open with an API to interact with programmatically.

What options do I have here? I assume Apex, Hydros are out of the picture here, as they're very much concerned with their own walled gardens of software.
(Pinging @ReefPig as it sounds like you've investigated this before?)

 

[AKReefing]

I love my Apex setup. I can't fathom relying on anything else on the market for the automation I use on my tank.

Tried Hydros with Gyres a few years ago and it was a mess. It's probably gotten better since I last tried it.

What was the mess with the Gyre?

 

[Stevorino]

What was the mess with the Gyre?

I wish I remembered the specifics better, but essentially the gyres themselves were pretty good, but the drivers/engines felt like they were constantly failing, sometimes without me noticing immediately.

I purchased 3-4 engines/drivers over a relatively short period, and that doesn't include the time spent sending them into support or dealing with troubleshooting.

The timing of this follow-up is pretty funny because I literally just received yesterday a couple of AI Orbit 4s so I could control them with Mobius.

 

[AKReefing]

I still own and use the original Gyre. The problem I had was that the manufacturer made it so the power cord comes out of the motor directly against the glass, forcing the cord to mash against the glass and cracking the vinyl covering on the cord. They ultimately replaced it, but I still wonder why they didn't change the design.

 

[Chuck_e]

A picture is worth a 1000 words. And this is on my FW system. The only issue I’ve ever had is with their MXM module. IMO it was rushed to market and until the software gets better I’ll stick with Mobius for the pumps.

Awesome! I'm curious what the back of the panel looks like - care to share?

 

[afternoondelight]

I use the Hydros iV and have the X10. I like both of them. Is there anything particular you want to know. My hydros collective has 14 controllers in it. They are split between the tank and the garage 35ft from the tank. I have my DI reservoir, fresh salt water reservoir and mix tank along with my RODI filter. These are all controlled by my Hydros. I also have my ATO and two AWC pumps in the garage.

Which AWC dosing pumps do you use with your Hydros?

 

[n2585722]

Which AWC dosing pumps do you use with your Hydros?

I have been using Intllab pumps but I got them before Hydros came out with theirs. I do use a Hydros simple doser for the ATO and it is in the garage with the AWC pumps. I have had it since Hydros came out with it. I will more than likely use Hydros pumps when I change out the Intllab pumps.

 

[afternoondelight]

Thanks for the reply! I'm leading towards Apex since I have EcoTech and Sicce pumps and a Neptune Dos for my AWC, but my LFS is seriously pushing the Hudros because that's what they know and like. I just want what's best for the situation (me and them) but it's starting to freak me out (a little)

 

[n2585722]

Thanks for the reply! I'm leading towards Apex since I have EcoTech and Sicce pumps and a Neptune Dos for my AWC, but my LFS is seriously pushing the Hudros because that's what they know and like. I just want what's best for the situation (me and them) but it's starting to freak me out (a little)

The Hydros can control the Sicce SDC pumps if you didn't know. What EcoTech pumps do you have? I have 2 MP10's that are controlled by my WEv2 on the Hydros. They are pre Mobius pumps so they were on a ReefLink and I just used the RF module out of the ReefLink in the WEv2. The Sicce SDC and the two MP10's are also powered from the Kraken force ports.

 

[afternoondelight]

The Hydros can control the Sicce SDC pumps if you didn't know. What EcoTech pumps do you have? I have 2 MP10's that are controlled by my WEv2 on the Hydros. They are pre Mobius pumps so they were on a ReefLink and I just used the RF module out of the ReefLink in the WEv2. The Sicce SDC and the two MP10's are also powered from the Kraken force ports.

I have the SDC 9.0 and two MP40 QD's (Mobius ready) I also have a ClariSea SK5000 and my skimmer is a UltraReef Typhoon UKD 200. My lights are ReeFi Uno 2.0's so I'm all over the place...lol

 

[n2585722]

I have the SDC 9.0 and two MP40 QD's (Mobius ready) I also have a ClariSea SK5000 and my skimmer is a UltraReef Typhoon UKD 200. My lights are ReeFi Uno 2.0's so I'm all over the place...lol

I would think it should control the SDC 9.0 since it controls my SDC 3.0. It is done via the Sicce cloud so there is no direct connection to the pump unless you are powering it also with a 24v port like I do. Not sure if the SDC 9.0 is 24v but if it is you can power it off the Kraken. If your MP40's can be downgraded to pre Mobius firmware they can be controlled but you would need to come up with a pre Mobius RF module to put in the WEv2 to control them. Some of the controllers do have 0-10v control outputs so if your lights have 0-10v inputs you can control them with the Hydros if you have a controller with the 0-10v outputs. There are some pumps that can be run off the direct drive outputs on a WE with the proper adapter. Here is a link to a chart of compatible pumps for the WE https://www.coralvuehydros.com/is-my-pump-compatible/ .