Coralvue Hydros vs. Apex

Neptune

Hasted

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Wait, if the internet goes down, or just the router? I'm sure I'm not the only one whose ISP goes down at least once every few months for several hours. Even if it's just wifi, I don't want to worry about my tank overheating/flooding if my router gets unplugged. Human error (me cleaning under my desk and disturbing it) scares me more than mechanical failure, although both are going to happen to my router.

Internet going down isn't much of an issue it seems.

If you do happen to bump your plug for your router somehow (?), the Control will spam you with alerts. If you are worried about it, you can set that to a "Red Alert" and have it send texts, emails, and audible alarm.

It all depends on your setup. Everyone is going to have different risks depending on their own equipment and programming. A Failed ON heater isn't going to do much for me since my 1st failsafe is my heater's thermostat, then the Inkbird, and then (when I even have it plugged in to the strip) the wifi strip. Very, very low risk. If you have huge heaters, a failed on could be a much higher risk.

Same with a dosing pump. If you're using something like the BRS 1.1mL/minute doser, a failed on is going to be a lot less dramatic than something like the Versa (300mL/minute).

--I don't have experience with the Versa doser so I not actually sure if that is an issue since it uses its own programming. My doser is the Kamoer X1 Pro and is connected to my "always on" strip and runs its own program.

So, weigh your risk and reward with what your equipment, goals, and desired programming are going to be. I have a near zero risk using the controller with my equipment, but not everyone is going to have that.
 
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shred5

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Right; but those things failed *off*. A heater or doser being stuck *on* can nuke the tank faster than off.


You should use a heater controller in addition to any Aquarium controller or at the least the thermostat from the heater. With any Aquarium Controller you should use a heat controller because those receptacles are not made to cycle as much as a heater does. I set my Aquarium Controller just slightly higher than the temp I want so the outlet is always on and use my Heat controller to actually turn the heaters on and off. This way if the heat controller does fails in the on position my Aquarium controller will shut the heat controller off. You could use the heater thermostat to do the same instead of a heat controller but I do not trust them.
So if wireless drops the receptacle will be on and the heat controller still controls it. Really simple.
Wait, if the internet goes down, or just the router? I'm sure I'm not the only one whose ISP goes down at least once every few months for several hours. Even if it's just wifi, I don't want to worry about my tank overheating/flooding if my router gets unplugged. Human error (me cleaning under my desk and disturbing it) scares me more than mechanical failure, although both are going to happen to my router.

That's a silly comparison. My cell phone can be off for a few hours without me dying. Heck, I go days in the woods without cell service.

A short time without electricity (especially if your powerheads have backups) isn't a major concern. A tank might survive 2 hours without power. It won't survive 2 hours of the heater being stuck on. It won't survive being dosed a full jug of alk. My floors won't survive my ATO being on for 2 hours. Failing "on" is worse than failing "off"

If your ISP goes down the whole system runs as it should and has nothing to do with internet.


Why is it a silly comparison. My phone drops WIFI/cell service far more than my home WIFI. I cant remember the last time my WIFI dropped. What if someone has a accident or the house starts on fire. You are trusting a cell phone correct? So you could be endangering something way more important than a fish tank someone life or your house. How many people have land lines now a days? Landlines are not the future same with wired networking. Wired still has the advantage of being more secure and also faster but that is changing too as WIFI speeds get faster. WIFI has the advantage of just picking up and moving something and being cheaper to install. It is especially used in existing building remodels. Even the light fixtures in building are now going WIFI we are seeing more and more of it..

Again read my statement above on the heat issue.
 
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JeffB418

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Wait, if the internet goes down, or just the router? I'm sure I'm not the only one whose ISP goes down at least once every few months for several hours. Even if it's just wifi, I don't want to worry about my tank overheating/flooding if my router gets unplugged. Human error (me cleaning under my desk and disturbing it) scares me more than mechanical failure, although both are going to happen to my router.

That's a silly comparison. My cell phone can be off for a few hours without me dying. Heck, I go days in the woods without cell service.

A short time without electricity (especially if your powerheads have backups) isn't a major concern. A tank might survive 2 hours without power. It won't survive 2 hours of the heater being stuck on. It won't survive being dosed a full jug of alk. My floors won't survive my ATO being on for 2 hours. Failing "on" is worse than failing "off"

There are things you can do to your Hydros environment to add additional redundancies around wifi/networking. Here are a few options, not saying these are required but if you want added protection it doesnt hurt:

Local network redundancy
1) Run a wired access point off your main router with the same SSID as your main router. Put this on a separate circuit/outlet than your router. If your router, or the AP goes down for some odd chance, your Hydros will automatically switch over and your local devices (wifi outlets, and Controls) will remain connected and communicating (regardless if your internet is out). You can find wired AP's for less than $50.

System redundancy
2) if you add multiple Control units in a collective, you gain redundancy to your wifi network. One device always remains as the master and others as slaves. All devices in a collective run the same config/programming, so if your master somehow goes out to lunch or dies, a slave device will become a master and tell your wifi outlets what to do. You can set an outlet to a fallback state if a sensor isnt available (for example the temp sensor was on the main device that died), so that you can force an output to OFF or ON if this situation occurs.


Less about redundancy but more about flexibility
3) you can take this a step further and actually actually connect devices in your collective to different SSIDs as long as they reside on the same LAN. So if you setup multiple wired access points with independent names, you can have the master connect to one, and slaves connect to others. The only gotcha in this situation is that WiFi outlets can only be paired to a single SSID (during pairing, which ever SSID the MASTER collective device is connected to, is what the wifi outlet will use). This situation is more handy in cases where you have a large setup that spans a great distance.

I actually have my setup this way since I have a fish room with hydros devices on a dedicated wired AP with its own SSID for hydros only, and then more Hydros devices in my basement that can't reach the fish room SSID reliability so I have a second dedicated wired AP in that area for those. I have been running this system hard like this for months and have had no issue but planning on adding redundant SSID APs in the fish room just incase. Long term plan is to move over all system critical devices (heaters, pumps, ato) to the wired power bar coming out, but for now I have been running all devices off 8 wifi power bars with no failures or issues.

That being said back to the heater or ATO situation you talk about. To really failsafe your setup you should use a secondary heater controller if you use a wifi outlet, and ATOs should be connected to the Drive port on the device. Either using a relay or a 12V Hydros pump. Or you can do what I did for one of my tanks, I ran my ATO pump in my basement with a single wifi outlet, then at the tank side I put a Hydros Liquid Solenoid inline with the ATO hose that directly connects to the drive port. The wifi outlet and solenoid are programmed to be on/off together, so if for some reason the wifi outlet did get stuck on due to a router issue, the solenoid at the tank side would act as my direct wired fail safe. You could do the same locally if you wanted the protection.
 

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burningmime

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Why is it a silly comparison. My phone drops WIFI/cell service far more than my home WIFI. I cant remember the last time my WIFI dropped. What if someone has a accident or the house starts on fire. You are trusting a cell phone correct? So you could be endangering something way more important than a fish tank someone life or your house.
It's an extrodinarily silly comparison, and the fact you don't get it makes it even sillier. A cell phone is not life support; it's a helpful tool for communication.

If your cell phone goes out, 99.999% of the time, there won't be any emergency. My cell phone crashed some time the other night (Android issues...) and was off for several hours without me knowing about it before I turned it back on. I didn't die. If my house is on fire, the first thing I would do is not to reach for my phone -- cellular or land line -- it would be to either grab the extinguisher if the fire is small, or get out and go to a neighbor's house. I don't trust my phone with the ability to put out or protect from fire.

A heater in a tank is life support. If it gets stuck on, it will 100% crash your tank in a few hours (assuming it's powerful enough). You're saying that the Hydros is too untrustworthy for a heater, so you need to use a separate controller with a temp probe. Now I agree it's smart to have redundancy there, and probably shouldn't use the controller outlets for a heater. But with an Apex, wifi could go off for an extended period of time, and it will still power cycle the heater appropriately, even without a separate heater controller.

There is an inherent additional point of failure in the Hydros that's not present in the Apex. Don't get me wrong, I think Neptune needs some viable competition, and Hydros seems like a better bet than GHL to take the #2 spot. However, wifi power strips feels like a bad idea, and the more mitigations I read about (eg separate routers with separate SSIDs) the more convinced I am of that.
 

n2585722

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It's an extrodinarily silly comparison, and the fact you don't get it makes it even sillier. A cell phone is not life support; it's a helpful tool for communication.

If your cell phone goes out, 99.999% of the time, there won't be any emergency. My cell phone crashed some time the other night (Android issues...) and was off for several hours without me knowing about it before I turned it back on. I didn't die. If my house is on fire, the first thing I would do is not to reach for my phone -- cellular or land line -- it would be to either grab the extinguisher if the fire is small, or get out and go to a neighbor's house. I don't trust my phone with the ability to put out or protect from fire.

A heater in a tank is life support. If it gets stuck on, it will 100% crash your tank in a few hours (assuming it's powerful enough). You're saying that the Hydros is too untrustworthy for a heater, so you need to use a separate controller with a temp probe. Now I agree it's smart to have redundancy there, and probably shouldn't use the controller outlets for a heater. But with an Apex, wifi could go off for an extended period of time, and it will still power cycle the heater appropriately, even without a separate heater controller.

There is an inherent additional point of failure in the Hydros that's not present in the Apex. Don't get me wrong, I think Neptune needs some viable competition, and Hydros seems like a better bet than GHL to take the #2 spot. However, wifi power strips feels like a bad idea, and the more mitigations I read about (eg separate routers with separate SSIDs) the more convinced I am of that.
Check this out They did a workshop on heaters.
 
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