Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
Hey everyone I think this site is going to crash, with this many comments.
Cost Of Equipment Is Out Of Hand
- Thread starter joshwaggs
- Start date
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Good for you, doesn’t make you any better than those who choose to spend the $
For some folks, the constant water testing is the most annoying part of the hobby. Maybe they have kids or are constantly out of town.
Everyone’s situation is different.
jasonrusso
2500 Club Member
Constant? Once a month for 5 minutes?
jasonrusso
2500 Club Member
Constant? Once a month for 5 minutes?
jasonrusso
2500 Club Member
As usual, this thread is getting combative because no one else can accept that someone else does something different and is successful.
I'm bowing out, good night.
I'm bowing out, good night.
I test alk a few times a week. Calcium and magnesium on the weekends. That’s for an established tank. A newer tank and for someone that just added a bunch of new acros, would probably need to be tested almost daily to keep with the consumption
Again. Not everyone’s situation is the same as yours.
Pola0502ds
Zoa Addict
My 2 cents, this hobby is only as expensive as we make it. I think someone can have just as nice of a tank spending a ton of less money than a person, like most of us, who spends a fortune on it. No one needs MP40 powerheads, $800 led lights, a $800 controller, etc.. no one. I have seen stunning tanks with no controllers using off brand equipment. However, the problem is that most of us, me included, are equipment junkies. We take pride in whats under our stand, just as much as the tank. And those same people like having the best of the best equipment. Thats what makes this hobby expensive, period. It’s us and how we are geared. You don’t need the latest and greatest to have an amazing tank.
MSB123
Someone out there put something smart here.
For flow, that is $150 for 2100 GPH of flow.
The wav pumps are $349 for 8000 GPH.
14 GPH per $1 for current USA, and 22 GPH per $1 spend for apex, without menitioning all of the controllability the WAV pumps have.
If you don’t actually look at the data, making statements like this don’t help your cause.
MSB123
Someone out there put something smart here.
The first thing, I have reached out to them and they said 5 years minimum for release in the USHere's two coming very soon Bluetooth to smartphone control
Michael Rodriguez
New Member
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The one thing to consider with some of these price gouging companies is that there is a lot of innovation that comes from them. Remember how much Tunze pumps costed? Then the Koralias came around. Every emerging technology is expensive at first, then once a company can make it for less (legally) it happens. The Vortech patent will run out. I wouldn't be surprised if companies have designs ready for manufacturing to compete with Ecotech.
I recently got a lot of used equipment for a screaming deal. Alot of it looked less than a year old too. I got lucky and ended up getting a skimmer, two LED lights, sump, return pump, heaters, wavemakers, sand, test kits dosers and a ton of other stuff for $125. Used is always a great option.
Capitalism can make some things expensive but it does help to progress towards innovative ideas. I really am enjoying my DC return pump for example. Quiet and controllable...
I recently got a lot of used equipment for a screaming deal. Alot of it looked less than a year old too. I got lucky and ended up getting a skimmer, two LED lights, sump, return pump, heaters, wavemakers, sand, test kits dosers and a ton of other stuff for $125. Used is always a great option.
Capitalism can make some things expensive but it does help to progress towards innovative ideas. I really am enjoying my DC return pump for example. Quiet and controllable...
I don’t think anyone has come on here and said that you NEED this equipment. Reef tanks have been around long before this stuff came about.
That being said, if people choose to spend money on things that make their tank look nicer, make maintenance chores easier, and adds fun features that’s their choice, even if it’s the higher end. If you’d rather buy stuff on the lower end bc you feel it’s not worth the expense to get high end stuff, that’s fine too! Just don’t complain that there’s a market for higher end equipment.
That being said, if people choose to spend money on things that make their tank look nicer, make maintenance chores easier, and adds fun features that’s their choice, even if it’s the higher end. If you’d rather buy stuff on the lower end bc you feel it’s not worth the expense to get high end stuff, that’s fine too! Just don’t complain that there’s a market for higher end equipment.
MSB123
Someone out there put something smart here.
I agree.
ADAM
@AK_Reefs on Instagram
You can do any of this hobby the way you want to do it and be successful. Once you have 1k - 20k in Acro then spending $600 for the Trident and $20-40 a month on reagents to see your Alk in real time and be alerted when its out of a specified range is more likely to help someone see the "value" that they didn't before.
Look at the build threads 10 years ago with a couple MJ1200s and Metal Halides, some rival the top build threads of this year. Buy a greenhouse and start a coral farm with actual sunlight, just don't expect that Jawbreaker mushroom or Walt Disney Acro to look the same.
Why would anyone care how much some particular items cost? Instead of complaining about the cost of certain items, couldn't the time be better spent in the New to the Hobby section telling someone they can start out with the 50-70% off MH fixtures, Jeboa wavemekers, and something like a clearance priced ASM skimmer and they will have solid workhorse equipment while they get a handle on water quality and the "ins-n-outs" of tank life, instead of them feeling like they need 1k in lights, $500 DC skimmer, 1k in wavemakers, and 5k Red Sea Reefer tank to start out? Without water quality, lights and pumps will get you nowhere fast.
The MP10-MP40-MP60 price "problem" to me seems fairly easy to see, quantity sold. The MP10 and MP60 probably have greater mark up than the MP40 because of numbers sold. If you think the Ecotech pumps are high check out the Abyzz at BRS! Ho-LEEEE Mo-LEEEEE
5-10x a Vectra or Varios again the value is in the eye of the beholder.
The assumed value do to price is very prevalent also, to agree somewhat with the original rant/complaint. Im victim of this in some aspects of life as well. It just doesn't cost enough to be worth a d***. Same goes for tools and equipment also. Friends will say good lawd....look at all that Dewalt stuff in that truck.....I probably can't afford for y'all to fix my AC, to them I say I cant afford to not use them. Ive bought the other cheaper brands over the years but nothing else does the job as well or holds up as well as they do. Dewalt isn't the most expensive tool line, but is normally in the top 1-2 priced brands carried in major retailers.
Just like car references....why do you let BMW and Mercedes price gouge you? A Camry has leather and heated seats and you can only go as fast as the speed limit anyway (HAHAHA Allegedly!) because I want one. Why buy a Skyline GTR when you can buy a 350z? UUUUUUMMMMM Cuz I want one and I can afford one. Why did I buy a few XR15s when my Hydra 26HDs worked fine? UMMMM cuz I wanted them and I could afford them. Not that I have unlimited funds by any means, but its what I wanted after seeing some tanks in person with various light systems. I contemplated for a while about going back to MH with VHO/ T5 supplements, ultimately I went with what I wanted, as everyone does for one reason or another. If you think they're overpriced then dont buy it.
I hear folks throw Ecotech under the bus all the time but never Orphek? Similar price points and both require an additional $100 device for wireless control.
Neptune has gotten flack for needing modules (more $) to work your devices, that being said, you can buy their product and then combine all YOUR preferred brand-of-choice items and still retain total control of YOUR devices on a simple platform app that the masses can use plus the well-versed tech savvy can use (admittedly griping about the coding).......what monsters! Go make up your own aquarium system and see what it cost, from scratch. Make the equivalent of a Red Sea Tank System with controller, lights, wavemakers, auto-testing, RO/DI, and chemicals for maintenance. Sell them to recoup your investment, then add your mark-up to sustain your life (unless your pro-bono) Id bet once you invested the time involved in the actual process needed and headache of doing so, you would likely say they should be selling them for more than what they are.
Most I think may have an issue because the continued argument implies that the people that have bought these item are idiots for paying such a ridiculous amount for that product. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.....I skin'em with Radions and Vortechs
Look at the build threads 10 years ago with a couple MJ1200s and Metal Halides, some rival the top build threads of this year. Buy a greenhouse and start a coral farm with actual sunlight, just don't expect that Jawbreaker mushroom or Walt Disney Acro to look the same.
Why would anyone care how much some particular items cost? Instead of complaining about the cost of certain items, couldn't the time be better spent in the New to the Hobby section telling someone they can start out with the 50-70% off MH fixtures, Jeboa wavemekers, and something like a clearance priced ASM skimmer and they will have solid workhorse equipment while they get a handle on water quality and the "ins-n-outs" of tank life, instead of them feeling like they need 1k in lights, $500 DC skimmer, 1k in wavemakers, and 5k Red Sea Reefer tank to start out? Without water quality, lights and pumps will get you nowhere fast.
The MP10-MP40-MP60 price "problem" to me seems fairly easy to see, quantity sold. The MP10 and MP60 probably have greater mark up than the MP40 because of numbers sold. If you think the Ecotech pumps are high check out the Abyzz at BRS! Ho-LEEEE Mo-LEEEEE
5-10x a Vectra or Varios again the value is in the eye of the beholder.
The assumed value do to price is very prevalent also, to agree somewhat with the original rant/complaint. Im victim of this in some aspects of life as well. It just doesn't cost enough to be worth a d***. Same goes for tools and equipment also. Friends will say good lawd....look at all that Dewalt stuff in that truck.....I probably can't afford for y'all to fix my AC, to them I say I cant afford to not use them. Ive bought the other cheaper brands over the years but nothing else does the job as well or holds up as well as they do. Dewalt isn't the most expensive tool line, but is normally in the top 1-2 priced brands carried in major retailers.
Just like car references....why do you let BMW and Mercedes price gouge you? A Camry has leather and heated seats and you can only go as fast as the speed limit anyway (HAHAHA Allegedly!) because I want one. Why buy a Skyline GTR when you can buy a 350z? UUUUUUMMMMM Cuz I want one and I can afford one. Why did I buy a few XR15s when my Hydra 26HDs worked fine? UMMMM cuz I wanted them and I could afford them. Not that I have unlimited funds by any means, but its what I wanted after seeing some tanks in person with various light systems. I contemplated for a while about going back to MH with VHO/ T5 supplements, ultimately I went with what I wanted, as everyone does for one reason or another. If you think they're overpriced then dont buy it.
I hear folks throw Ecotech under the bus all the time but never Orphek? Similar price points and both require an additional $100 device for wireless control.
Neptune has gotten flack for needing modules (more $) to work your devices, that being said, you can buy their product and then combine all YOUR preferred brand-of-choice items and still retain total control of YOUR devices on a simple platform app that the masses can use plus the well-versed tech savvy can use (admittedly griping about the coding).......what monsters! Go make up your own aquarium system and see what it cost, from scratch. Make the equivalent of a Red Sea Tank System with controller, lights, wavemakers, auto-testing, RO/DI, and chemicals for maintenance. Sell them to recoup your investment, then add your mark-up to sustain your life (unless your pro-bono) Id bet once you invested the time involved in the actual process needed and headache of doing so, you would likely say they should be selling them for more than what they are.
Most I think may have an issue because the continued argument implies that the people that have bought these item are idiots for paying such a ridiculous amount for that product. Theres more than one way to skin a cat.....I skin'em with Radions and Vortechs
Evan28395950
Valuable Member
I prefer to stay away from WiFi/Bluetooth stuff as much as possible, as radiation levels tends to be a big problem for me, although I do love my ai hydras automatic lights on/off, can’t beat.
What test kits are you using, and what are you testing?
I would pay a lot of money to do all of my testing in five minutes a month. It takes me longer than five minutes to do a single copper Colorimeter test on my QT tank. I do around 20 tests a month, when fish are in QT. I do a chlorine test every time I turn on my RODI unit. Calcium, magnesium, and nitrate tests one a month. I have to wait longer than 5 minutes for reagents in my nitrate test kit just to stabilize.... I test alk once a week, and if I could fit it into my schedule, I'd do it once a day. We are talking hours of testing every month - and I'm not even getting into trace element testing here.
I would pay good money to have a machine do this for me, but right now I can't afford it. How dare Trident or Alkatronic sell gear that is out of my price range! I demand they reduce their profit margins immediately until they can hit my price point!. I know it only costs them $20 in parts for the unit...... right?
Wicky48
Active Member
OK so I have been looking around and really, the old saying you get what you pay for is true and is wrong. Some of these expensive pieces we buy are good quality yes but there is some really cheap stuff out there that works. For instance, I have had a Jebao DC pump running my system for the last year since they came out and not a single problem. These are much cheaper then Neptune or Sicce or any other big names. There are controllers you can by on Amazon and yes I am a Prime member because dang there is some good ..... on there. I bought a controller that monitors my ORP, PH, Temperature, Alkalinity and Salinity for 200 and less. Sure they don't have the online computer monitoring but hey wait a minute. Are you guys looking for convenience or what are you looking for? Do you find that these products keep us out of touch with our reef tanks because they make it so easy? Taking down your own readings and calculating yourself keeps me in touch with my reef, makes me think about and I like that. Sure it would be easier but I'm not ready to hand the decisions about whats going on in my reef over to a computer. I keep in touch, i still feel the water with my hands and I can tell you I know how Alkaline and Acidic water feel like, there is a difference. You can do all these things without expensive equipment it just takes a little more work and some people these days are getting a little too lazy about it,
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