Cost Of Equipment Is Out Of Hand

[naterealbig]

OK so I have been looking around and really, the old saying you get what you pay for is true and is wrong. Some of these expensive pieces we buy are good quality yes but there is some really cheap stuff out there that works. For instance, I have had a Jebao DC pump running my system for the last year since they came out and not a single problem. These are much cheaper then Neptune or Sicce or any other big names. There are controllers you can by on Amazon and yes I am a Prime member because dang there is some good ..... on there. I bought a controller that monitors my ORP, PH, Temperature, Alkalinity and Salinity for 200 and less. Sure they don't have the online computer monitoring but hey wait a minute. Are you guys looking for convenience or what are you looking for? Do you find that these products keep us out of touch with our reef tanks because they make it so easy? Taking down your own readings and calculating yourself keeps me in touch with my reef, makes me think about and I like that. Sure it would be easier but I'm not ready to hand the decisions about whats going on in my reef over to a computer. I keep in touch, i still feel the water with my hands and I can tell you I know how Alkaline and Acidic water feel like, there is a difference. You can do all these things without expensive equipment it just takes a little more work and some people these days are getting a little too lazy about it,

So if you can buy a Jaebo at the same "quality, efficacy, and longevity" as a Sicce, Ecotech, or Tunze, I don't understand what all the fuss is about?

Do you run a heater on your tank? If so, a machine is making a decision about your tank for you..... It's been proven - a computer can make data based "decisions" more accurately and more quickly than a human. It's the reason some cars can slam on the brakes for you.....

And yes... I spend a large amount of my time at work, and I need something that can take care of my tank while I'm at the office. Or asleep. Or doing something with my family.


I'm training myself to be able to test alkalinity and temperature with my finger tips. I'm not there yet, and until I am, I'm going to have to rely on these pesky, expensive test kits and controllers to do it for me.

 

[stevieduk]

sorry but cant agree with NDRWATER, when he says about R N D , ive been in this Hobby, (cos thats what it is ), for 56 years now and the companies that are ripping us off have concluded all there research years ago and know how a pump or what ever is going to perform.
I think its more a case of hyping equipment up and knowing that a percentage of people are stupid enough to buy it.
Case in point, i saw a new Algae scrubber from one company a few months ago. it was just a small plastic frame with a roll of fine mesh on it and a cheap little pump and light. when the algae had grown on the mesh you just pulled on the mesh like a roll of toilet paper and exposed a new portion of mesh and disposing of the old piece. quiet a good idea you would think for $20 or $30, but no this thing was $432 and you have to keep buying rolls of mesh . The thing that does worry me , is that years ago we used to make a lot of our own equipment and so , the older hobbyists among us still have that knowledge, but the younger people will fall right into the manufacturers trap of thinking that they have to buy this over egged equipment. A bit like people when a new I phone comes out and the mugs pay $1000 for a phone that does the same as the one they already have.

 

[Tamberav]

This hobby is as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be.

For early reef tanks, I was in college with a tiny budget. I used Petco tanks and had one reef ready tank I got for free because the silicone was leaking at the bottom so I redid the silicone. I bought used skimmers and used pumps... the cheap used kind... koralias and eshopps but USED to make them even cheaper. Even my reef breeders light was bought used. Cheap metal stands or 2nd hand furniture.

I had no problems keeping a variety of livestock including a mixed reef and clams. The setup wasn't as clean looking and I couldn't control my gadgets from my phone but it grew coral just fine with good color, maybe not as spectacular color as high end combos can sometimes pull out... but good color none-the-less.

Now all it really takes is a fish bowl, an air pump, pinpoint controller + heater, and a $25 par light to grow coral if you want it bad enough.

 

[Bighead]

I understand your grumble I am an electrician who specializes in doing control work mostly on large air handlers and much more we use devices very similar to control these units they are mearly micro switches that open and close on demand or whenever the program tells it am aquarium controller works the same way just different programming
I have to agree 600 - 800 for a controller is insane yes rand D the program but not 800 for some China junk maybe 150 and that’s a lot believe me
Power heads absolute rip off yes a Vortech works great and is reliable but still a rip off
Then there is ur lighting led lighting on the commercial and residential level has dropped drastically in the past 5 or so years I know because I order it for jobs almost 50% it dropped but not aquarium lighting it rose about 20 %
But this is a hobby and any hobby is exslensive I guess we just gotta suck it up and work more overtime for the things we like

 

[Bighead]

One more thing I am old school no fancy power heads or controllers the most sophisticated equipment I have is a doser and of course my DIY brain

 

[Matt Carden]

Who is ripping us off more Samsung or Ecotech/Neptune? Samsung sells millions of Galaxy phones each year. Ecotech/Neptune sells thousands. R&D, manufacturing, and marketing costs spread between sales numbers.

 

[Bighead]

This conversation is about aquarium equipment not phones oil or healthcare

 

[DancingShark]

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/has-t...sive-and-how-does-it-compare-to-the-past.419/

This is a nice read from a old school reefer.

 

[Paul B]

A company that designs a product, goes through multiple iterations in R&D, perfects the design for safety and efficiency, then passes production to China has a ton of additional costs besides what it pays for production. Nevermind the backend product support for the end consumer...

This is true, (although I never buy anything from China if I could get it in the USA even if it is 20 times the cost)
I invented and patented the "Majano Wand". The patent cost something like $30,000.00 and the mold to produce the thing was about 3 grand.
Finding a factory that wanted to produce it is a career in itself (it is made by a company that also makes heart valves in Florida)
Acquiring the materials is another disaster because you have to order in huge quantities to get a decent price and if you don't sell them, you take a big loss.

The thing sells for about $130.00 and I get something like 6 bucks for each one.

 

[Thales]

I understand your grumble I am an electrician who specializes in doing control work mostly on large air handlers and much more we use devices very similar to control these units they are mearly micro switches that open and close on demand or whenever the program tells it am aquarium controller works the same way just different programming
I have to agree 600 - 800 for a controller is insane yes rand D the program but not 800 for some China junk maybe 150 and that’s a lot believe me
Power heads absolute rip off yes a Vortech works great and is reliable but still a rip off
Then there is ur lighting led lighting on the commercial and residential level has dropped drastically in the past 5 or so years I know because I order it for jobs almost 50% it dropped but not aquarium lighting it rose about 20 %
But this is a hobby and any hobby is exslensive I guess we just gotta suck it up and work more overtime for the things we like

As a specialized electrician, do some people think your fees are too expensive because all you are doing is connecting wires? I don’t think that btw, but it seems to use the same thinking you are applying to specialized aquarium equipment.

 

[Reefer1978]

I refuse to pay Neptune or Ecotech a thousand dollars for 2 wave pumps. I paid $150 for 2 1050 GPH Current E-Flux pumps. They work very well on my 34 gallon

And the great thing about this hobby - you have this choice. Don't want Neptune or Ecotech - you don't have to use their products.

I spent 20 minutes reading up on that diy raspberry based controller. Suddenly Apex seemed VERY good deal

Well said.

I am thankful to have great wholesalers (BRS, MARINE DEPOT, SEASIDE ECT ECT who I purchase and resale items. When I buy products in bulk I get a way better deal. When I buy radion xr30w gen 4 pros I spend 10,000+ for them in order to make 1000 dollar profit I have to sell 15 lights. Shipping on lights like this with insurance can cost a seller 40 to 80 dollars depending on location.

Always wondered how much my wholesalers get the lights for? Then I think I'm moving XX amount of lights they move XXXX amount of lights. Profit through quantity.

You know you are not allowed to buy wholesale Radions and sell cheaper on forums? That's why map pricing exists. We wonder why prices stay high and go up - this is why. Let retailers earn a living, stick to your job.

 

[Reefer1978]

This conversation is about aquarium equipment not phones oil or healthcare

But it keeps on getting compared to phones, oil and healthcare. We can't compare reefing equipment that maybe 1 our 100,000 people will buy to a phone that everyone has, some people even have 2 or 3.

 

[GregOyeah]

This conversation is about aquarium equipment not phones oil or healthcare

It may be a different conversation but the problem and solution is the same. Worry about what you’re doing and what’s best for you and not the guy next to you.

 

[rtparty]

I got about 50 posts in before I realized how little people understand manufacturing, supply and demand and just how much the amount of units made and sold really does effect price.

At that point, I had to quit reading.

 

[theMeat]

Without talking about economics/marketing and how it works will stay ot about how it effects our hobby. There are some good deals out there, just don’t get why people don’t catch on.

Let’s look at Jebao... sure, not the best build quality there, or the latest and greatest eye candy, but you can buy 3-4 comparable gph for the price of one ecotech mp whatever. Then you get all the people who try to justify dropping big coin an mp pump and continuously bash Jebao. Pathetic. How long is your wet side going to last? How much did you pay?

Kalkwasser....
One of the best bang for buck deals in the hobby. Easy, cheap, and helps with ph to boot. Yet people gravitate to two part. Puzzling

 

[Greaps]

I don't work in the industry and can't really say what the difference is for R&D makes..

Jebao and other companies are all rebranding the same powerhead head now, originally it was very similar to a Tunze in design.

I imagine the marketing budget is massive for eco-tech and other "high ends", perhaps the knock off are much much cheaper now at this stage in the game do to smaller marketing budgets. You never see flashy advertisement for Jebao...More- marketing, more advertisement, the more customers you attract the more you can charge for the brand. Make it cool to own all eco-tech gear and a certain amount of people will buy into that idea.

 

[Mike1995]

This is an expensive hobby. Period... Unless you are willing to put up with shoddy craftsmanship, or go old-school with an airstone and plastic decorations, it's kind of the way it is.
R and D costs money, materials cost money. Labor, the most expensive of all, costs money.. fish, corals, rock, all come from somewhere far away and freight, costs money.. You can do without a controller, powerhead live rock from a far off land and exotic fish. But...

It doesn't have to be. Most if not all these products are made in China or somewhere abroad. They definitely don't cost $800 or $300 or whatever to make. Corals I can see. Fine ..but equipment is way overpriced weather you or anyone likes it or not.

 

[GregOyeah]

Without talking about economics/marketing and how it works will stay ot about how it effects our hobby. There are some good deals out there, just don’t get why people don’t catch on.

Let’s look at Jebao... sure, not the best build quality there, or the latest and greatest eye candy, but you can buy 3-4 comparable gph for the price of one ecotech mp whatever. Then you get all the people who try to justify dropping big coin an mp pump and continuously bash Jebao. Pathetic. How long is your wet side going to last? How much did you pay?

Kalkwasser....
One of the best bang for buck deals in the hobby. Easy, cheap, and helps with ph to boot. Yet people gravitate to two part. Puzzling

There are definitely pros and cons in decision to go in either direction in regards to equipment.

As far as Kalk goes, whenever I used kalk I would develop precipitation issues, all of this went away when I went to two part.

I’m sure there was a solution to my problems with kalk but the other drawback for me was having it tied into my top off water and the disasters that can come from an overdose

 

[Mike1995]

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[scriptmonkey]

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