Cost Of Equipment Is Out Of Hand

[Empress]

If you couldn’t control your LED’s so you can have lightning effects, if you couldn’t control that fancy return pump so you can make it go fast or slow, if you couldn’t control the wave maker to have feed mode, the prices wouldn’t be so high. It’s the CONTROLLABILITY that reefers are paying for, and so you can control all that on your smart phone. What ever happened to KISS?

 

[hart24601]

What really stands out to me in this thread, and it’s super exciting, is how many new companies are going to be started for reefing gear since it’s all overpriced and easy to produce!

 

[count krunk]

some people are taking my replies way too seriously.

these threads r dumb. buy it, don't buy it etc.

 

[Lousybreed]

Now that we all heard from the expert of reefing industry with a track record of a single post on r2r, we can all move on with the rest of our day.[/QUOTE

No need to be an butt. He has legitimate points. And he is right. Wake up people we are being taken. The LED lighting market has been in a YOY (year over year) cost decrease per lumen for over 10 years. How are our lights still getting more expensive? It’s almost like you want to justify the cost of lights in our hobby. We should be demanding better. I love how the one company sells the diffusers for their lights. Those diffusers cost about 50 cents to make. What a joke.

 

[Reefer1978]

@Lousybreed not trying to be an butt, but maybe a little sarcastic. I am just trying to say someone who as far as we know joined the hobby 10 minutes ago shouldn't speak for the entire industry. But as we all know internet is full of experts on every topic, so arguing any point of view is not worth it.

 

[Earl A]

It doesn't have to be. Most if not all these products are made in China or somewhere abroad. They definitely don't cost $800 or $300 or whatever to make. Corals I can see. Fine ..but equipment is way overpriced weather you or anyone likes it or not.

What something costs to make has no bearing on how much its worth. Look at restored cars. Look at precious gems.

 

[Nolan Shinn]

I’m like 50% with OP on this one. We’re seeing a ton of cool products coming out which are packed with tech like wireless connectivity and LEDs etc because the physical components are really cheap and accessible right now.
But in implementation, the products fall short. Sometimes due to cheap manufacturing but mostly, in my experience, because of Clunky software that’s hard to connect or setup.

BRS mentioned this in one of their lighting videos, specifically about the light spectrum sliders in LED lights that often do more harm than good.
I’m fine with paying a higher amount for aquarium equipment because it IS a niche market. I’m well aware of the difficulties and expense of bringing a product to market (I’m a product designer), but the onus has to start to fall on companies to improve UX if they want to keep charging premium rates...

 

[MSB123]

That is not a function of pump and coral placement no? I run those pumps full blast for part of the day in 150 gallon tanks.

Exactally. I run 2 MP40s and a wav full blast in a 180

 

[Lousybreed]

@Lousybreed not trying to be an ***, but maybe a little sarcastic. I am just trying to say someone who as far as we know joined the hobby 10 minutes ago shouldn't speak for the entire industry. But as we all know internet is full of experts on every topic, so arguing any point of view is not worth it.

I hear you but I don’t think his opinion is affected by how long he has been on this forum. He is spot on. That certain LED light with the word pro in it contains about $100 of materials at the worst case. More likely around $50 based on the volume they move. You will see more competition in the near future. And I agree that the options that come out need to be KISS. Lose some of the fancy features but keep the light quality up. I say after two channel control, not sure what you REALLY need.

 

[NeveSSL]

Where do you get $50 to $100? Your credibility shot straight out the window with that comment.

Brandon

 

[427HISS]

All those years in sprint cars around roaring engines, at least you don't have to worry about buying ultra silent pumps!

What ?.....can't hear ya. lol....

 

[Redfoxtang]

I just saved money by switching my car insurance to Geico. Now I can buy an Apex!

 

[Reefer1978]

I hear you but I don’t think his opinion is affected by how long he has been on this forum. He is spot on. That certain LED light with the word pro in it contains about $100 of materials at the worst case. More likely around $50 based on the volume they move. You will see more competition in the near future. And I agree that the options that come out need to be KISS. Lose some of the fancy features but keep the light quality up. I say after two channel control, not sure what you REALLY need.

I actually don't fully agree. Overall costs for LED's (diods) do go down. Many lights are made in China. Ecotech lights are actually build in the states believe it or not. Ecotech also owns AI. So they have a mid-market light, and a high end light. What they don't have is an equivalent of a cheap black box. Personally I am ok with that and there are plenty of manufacturers that try to fill that gap (i.e. Fluval).

I tried more then half of the lights on the market. Personally I settled on AIs - best control for my needs, corals love them. My last 2c on the topic.

 

[Sarah24!]

That is not a function of pump and coral placement no? I run those pumps full blast for part of the day in 150 gallon tanks.

Hello,

Soo you didn’t read my entire post and or understand what I wrote. If you read it I clearly stated that pump and coral placement was fine. There was no other contributing factor, in this. The corals were not in direct line or flow, they were actually about six inches behind the wave maker. But if you study currents and flow, you know that it can change and go in different directions right. If your running a pump at 8000 gph as you stated near any sps you will tear the flesh off. So are you running one pump at 8000 gph or is this again 2 mp40s on full blast?

Yes placement matters but every tank is different and we all know this. My sps and I have some nice ones did not like full blast on stream. I have had much better luck with them on wave at 100%. If they are on stream I have to set them around 50%.

Maybe (hint) you could have explained that it was 2 mp40s because I am not aware of any wave maker that produces 8000 gph. As well unless in a large tank if any coral is close to it, more than likely the flow or current will be too much and tear the flesh off of it.

 

[DEWreefing]

My two hobbies are both potently expensive, Reef keeping and Rocketry. I can buy a 150.00 dollar kit that needs an electronics flight bay, electronic altimeter to deployment parachutes and then a motor case to hold the motor in the rocket, fire proof blankets to wrap the parachutes in so they don't melt when the deployment charge fires and the motor itself now cost $50.00 bucks or more.... ect ect and in the end have put in over $500.00 dollars on a rocket before it even gets in the air. Pretty much just like reef keeping it is a small niche hobby that can be as inexpensive or as expensive as one wants to or as ones budget allows. It all depends on what one wants to do or spend. I spent a year building my first reef tank, saving up for each purchase so that I could buy better equipment. High cost or low cost with the right skills and patients any one can make a beautiful reef tank, just look at the varied tanks here and what investments are in them

This is what a $50.00 dollar rocket can look like.

This is what something in the $1000.00 dollar range can look like...along with a grouchy 7 year old.

That pink one looks like a giant crayon

 

[lakai]

Watch a YouTube video of one of those online coral shops with over $100,000 dollars worth of lights over their tanks, if they paid even half price for those fixtures they couldn't afford to be in business.

Yeah no way they pay full retail price for those banks of lights. I would not be surprised if they were free or at least half off. This is even available in their Retail partner program.

I recently bought 5 xr30pro and 4 mp60 at the cheapest you could possibly get retail. Even though I saved about $1k I still feel ripped off so I don't know how certain people are defending huge markup.

Thing is that we aren't their customers. Their customers are the retailers.

 

[scriptmonkey]

You do realize beating a dead horse is animal cruelty? Wouldn't that make this thread illegal?

 

[Michael Rodriguez]

What really stands out to me in this thread, and it’s super exciting, is how many new companies are going to be started for reefing gear since it’s all overpriced and easy to produce!

Actually, since the last time I was in this hobby, all of the companies that are producing stuff now that seem to be highly regarded I don't recognize. This was since around 2011. There are a few major brands but not many.

 

[ADAM]

Well the cheaper is better (or just as good) is whole problem of its own too. Look at any local economy 10 years before Walmart came to town, versus 10 years after. But funny how everyone loves local shops and is so overwhelmed by dilapidated downtown areas on social media when posting pictures of "way back when" or "the closed mill", yet went they needed pampers and milk they always found themselves under a big blue sign. If Neptune and Ecotech need to realign their business strategy what do you feel about Walmart and Target? Probably think they are justified since they are cheaper, however many of the American private sector businesses were pushed out of business because of Walmart and price demands for products on their shelf. Dont even get me started on Amazon and what they are doing to the economy and small businesses, feel free to look up the independent reports tho. However if you were Mr/ Ms Neptunia Ecotina and you made a good product and asked a decent price for the product, I think this is as American as Apple Pie at a baseball game. I as a small business owner commend them for doing so. We are the premium contractors in our market, and you have the Jeboa contractors. We also have market share in our area too! Hows that???? Quality product, quality service, and built a reputation that if something goes wrong we will help as soon and as good as we possibly can. Over the years with Ecotech and Neptune when I had an issue with a device I got a quick reply from customer service, normally the solution was close to what I thought it would be, and occasionally even better than I expected. Also they have web based applications and apps that require someone monitor them and keep them running too, are these employees to be paid or do it for the love of the hobby?

Recently sold 2- 26HDs (EcoTech family products) and the new owner messaged me to say the Violet on one fixture quit working and asked if there was anything I knew to do. We checked and I logged in remotely to try everything I new on resetting the lights, updating the firmware, to the "real factory reset" (not the one listed in the manual), however nothing worked so he contacted customer service and they went through and told him it must be an internal control/ software issue that would likely cost more to repair himself than the light was worth....... I was ready to refund the purchase amount of the fixture when he said that Ecotech/ AI sent him an RMA and said if he wanted to return the light to them they would replace it with a refurbished fixture for $100!!!! (which i intend to pay since I sold him two working lights and feel responsible in some way even though they left my possession working) So in my mind Ecotech/ AI have a staff that repairs the lights and ships them back to the owners. They couldn't do that without a pretty decent business model. I wonder how Black Box LED could have handled that same problem? I assume with cheaper components, no real website for consumer interaction, basically non-existent customer service....so sorry so sad; here's the link to buy a new one?

Vote with your wallet, not with your right of speech.

 

[ADAM]

You do realize beating a dead horse is animal cruelty? Wouldn't that make this thread illegal?

HILARIOUS! Im supprised PETA hasn't chimed in yet too!