Cost Of Equipment Is Out Of Hand

[Lousybreed]

Assuming 20,000 units per year, you are looking at 900,000 per year. Let’s say a generation of lights goes for 4 years. That’s 3.6 million for these tasks. I think this is more than enough. Consider that once you build the platform, you are just looking at incremental improvements.

 

[NeveSSL]

Cool. They don't sell them for the price you quoted, though. That's what the store sells them for.

Brandon

 

[Fritzhamer]

I would submit that the Coralvue family of products has filled this mid-range void. Much of their lineup, or that they distribute for, (it seems to me) are lower cost Chinese products. They offer a re-tooled version of the low cost Chinese product; better parts, better controller, better instructions and better/domestic support.

Again this is as it appears to me. I haven’t tried all of their offerings and this doesn’t apply to the Reef Octopus line, but the ice cap certainly appears to be private labeled versions of existing products made to perhaps different standards for the IC line.

I have a friend in manufacturing who stated that virtually everything in his industry is now made in one factory and while that factory specializes in making the lowest cost items possible, they’re quite capable. My friend “makes” the highest quality items in his industry except he doesn’t make them. The factory that specializes in low grade options does. He’s been working with them for over a decade. Many of his “high end” offerings are actually their products just redesigned for our and his market. His clients will pay more for a thicker product with a lower failure rate, etc. That’s what it seems to me Coralvue does with some of their lines which allows for that medium price point.

 

[Ashley Kekua]

what is meaning behind brass tacks?

 

[amazongb]

what is meaning behind brass tacks?

Synonyms for brass tacks
Synonyms

nitty-gritty, nuts and bolts, ropes

 

[Ashley Kekua]

maybe you should buy 2 mp40 much better than 1 mp60 my thinking

They are identical in design. I agree with you their is something different in the MP60 that makes it a more powerful powerhead. But $333.00 more. I doubt it. Heres one for you The MP10 is 1500GPH $299.00. The MP40 is 4500GPH $366.50 and the MP60 is 7500GPH $699.00

Now i can assume whatever was needed in the MP40 to make it 3000GPH more then the MP10 must of cost as much as it did to make the MP60 3000GPH more then the MP40. But why is the MP40 $60 more then the MP10 and the MP60 is $366.00 more then the MP40?

 

[Ashley Kekua]

Or bently.

or alibaba

 

[Lousybreed]

I will agree with you that gen 1 they probably made little to no money. All of that upfront development. Gen two was better than that. Pure cash cow for gen 3 and 4

 

[Ashley Kekua]

I actually still do.

I also don't find this hobby very expensive. Of course I don't have a need for a controller, doser, wave maker, oxidator,, test kits or any of that stuff many people feel they need, or want. I can afford them, I just don't see the need.
I have a 125 gallon reef and probably spend an hour a week on it, and that is just for feeding and cleaning the glass.
I really have no idea what all the work or money is for.

But that's just me.

i wish you to be my hero

 

[Ashley Kekua]

What about coral price? Just put a name on it and the price will go up 500%. We are the only one who can control the price.
About equipment, I have to say that for the price of one VorTech MP60 $699.99 (7500GPH) you can buy almost 10 Jebao PP-20 (5300GPH). I have been using this type of wavemaker for 3 years with no problem.

this meaning what I rather do so what if 3 break down!

 

[Earl A]

Let’s add $20 per unit for product development and marketing, $15 for tariffs, $10 for misc charges. So a total of $145 for the unit. And they sell for 840.

You forgot labor, electricity, campus housing, taxes, marketing, rent etc. Beside what it costs to make something has nothing to do with what it costs. It’s comes down to what someone is willing to pay for it. And that varies from person to person.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

A long time ago I started my company fabricating products that were not available to the aquarium hobby. They included light systems, filters, aquariums with overflows built in, hang on the tank prefilters/overflows, wave makers, auto refill systems, protein skimmers, all in one tanks, and ect. In the end the biggest mistake I made was not aiming for the top of the market and charging accordingly and building accordingly. I tried to hit the sweet spot between what it cost to build and deliver the product to what I thought the average hobbiest would spend. I got it all wrong and arrived at a point where I could not work long enough, hard enough or fast enough to grow the business. Had I taken some good advice and "creamed the top of the market" my company might have survived long enough to be the recipient of many of these complaints about price and quality. But instead I had to switch industries and learn from the past. Now I use only the best products with the best warranty in the solid surface industry (Corian solid surface and Corian Quartz) for my customers. As a result when there is a problem I have a reliable business partner in DuPont that helps me deliver the type of customer satisfaction we all want. I know all about how to design and deliver lower cost alternatives in the aquarium industry but most will lead to the problem of customer satisfaction and that is not what you or I really want.

In my experience in the aquarium industry there are three companies that stand out regardless of cost. Eheim, Tunze, and Kessil. I have Eheim and Tunze pumps and filters that are over twenty years old and I can still get parts and I very rarely need parts. That is very cost effective! I have purchased used items in all three of these companies with the confidence that I have the support of the manufacturer if I need parts or service on something I can't handle. This is the mark of a good company with a history of designing good products that are meant for a long service life. There will be some of you who have a different experience but I believe there are fewer of you than those who have had my experience with these companies. We all would do better to find products with a long service life and a company that thinks that way if you want to lower your stress in this hobby.

I also believe less is more in the control market. We do not need fake lightning storms or individual control of each LED to achieve success. We do not need DC control on pumps period and they often do not provide any measurable electrical savings. We don't need another point of failure in WIFI connectivity. We need system design that is simple and robust. Let's take a lesson from all the computers, cell phones and electronic devices and see that legacy systems are the way big business plays that game to advantage the cost of those systems. Remember the more you depend on the electronics the more you increased the possible avenues for failure. The more integteted and complex the more prone to failure.

Learn to observe the life in the system and make changes slowly so you can understand the importance of cause and effect. If you want this to be a hobby find enjoyment in what you can afford and attain without sacrificing the balance in your life and family.

Wish you all the best and happy reefing!

 

[Ashley Kekua]

Hello,

This has been a very interesting back and forth thread. I have to admit that I agree with @joshwaggs but not just on aquarium stuff etc. Sadly once again Ecotech was the center of debate (it’s picked on). Now I’m not saying Ecotech isn’t quality items, or anything else. But several people have made very valid points of view about them. So let’s not pick on Ecotech, I would rather not have someone toss an old broken wave maker at me.

As some may or not know I work in medical field. So here is something to chew on, most people who donate blood do it for free, they are not paid. As most also know an O neg is thee most important blood to have or get etc. Now we all donate this to the American Red Cross which by the way is non profit. Yet those individuals who need blood don’t get it for free. As a point of fact, (well where I work) it’s $2,500 dollars for 1 pint of blood. It’s another 500 for some staff member to take a vacuum hose from (an iv already in to the bag of blood). Where does all this money go? I have learned that the ceo of the American Red Cross makes over 2 million a year. Now I know, they have to filter it and test it etc, but they get it for free, and charge those who need it.

They charge this amount because people really do need blood, and reefers really need wave makers or lights etc. companies know we need these items in order to make things just work. Do they get rich off of us, yes they do is it right (I honestly don’t know). Now the reason I linked these two companies is to show and provide that it’s not just them or this hobby but it’s our society as a whole. Now a days sadly money is the only thing that defines a person. People are judged based on money, wealth, etc. Nike for example or aka air Jordan charges how much for a pair of tennis shoes?. Let’s do another one, how about Coach purses, 300 for a purse lol really! People by them because that what our society has turned into.

Just on this forum alone lol how many times were people asked to be civil? Money clearly is what drives society in good and bad ways. The only way things will change is if society change, culture norms change. But the hardest question to ask is will it? Just by using these examples, it automatically separates people. It does so because there are those who have purchased Nike or Ecotech etc and those who by knock off copy brands. It also sets people apart based on how they spend their money. Some say I would never waste money on this etc, and other who have. People are on the defense and honestly shouldn’t be. Nobody is in the wrong, if they do or do not support Ecotech. But none of this will change until society changes. We will have this same debate how many times in the next month, year etc.

I really wish this hobby was a lot less expensive, and among other things. In reality I feel bad for those who can’t enjoy the true experience of reefing because of price. I also feel sorry for those who have done whatever it is, to have the money to buy them. They probably get tired and frustrated defending why they choose to buy them. Who cares, lol and as others have said we can either buy or not buy.

If we as a group of people, which we all have one thing in common (reefing), were to change something (why not fix the real problem) society. Since it can only take one voice to start something, imagine what it would be with all of us?
People could still enjoy regardless their amazing mp60 and everyone can still enjoy reefing at the same technical level.

Please run for President please!

 

[sfin52]

I just found a new 48" coralife t5 two bulb fixture for 60$.

 

[Ashley Kekua]

I love hi-end products, MP40's all day, two separate apex systems (thank you baby Jesus), Vectra L1 you bet, Hydra 52's HELL yes. With that said 90% of that I bought used, I save my money and when a deal pops up I buy. Here's the deal, this is my hobby and I enjoy having a mini ocean in the desert with LED's that mimic the sunrise and sunset with almost zero noise from 200 plus gallons because I spent a few extra dollars for better equipment. Some have complained about APEX, for the money spent on everything living in your tank the Apex system allows you to see exactly what is going on in your system while you are away and make changes on the fly or even save the very lives in that tank because your apex sent you a alert. So yes, prices are a little out of control but if you plan ahead and save your pennies you to can pickup some great used hi-end equipment for a fraction of the original/new cost.

you should meet Jimmy Coulson. you would like him very much I think

 

[scriptmonkey]

-

Lol uh oh...you edited it to be a -, must of been a dozzy!

 

[adam finley]

Is the ecotech wavemakers fully made here or just assembled here but made of Chinese parts?

 

[Sarah24!]

Please run for President please!

Hello,

Please elaborate, in your statement about running for President. Since you know American history so well you obviously know I can’t run for President of USA because you must be 35 and I’m only 25. So which President should I run for again? I did graduate medical school already, so at least if I do run, I would know a lot about health care, and medical care for everyone.

But politics isn’t really what I wanted to do in life (hint) I went to medical school instead. But if I did then probably would have majored in debate and political science or English, then law school. But I found biology and micro biology way more fascinating. But enough talking about me let’s talk about you @Ashley Kekua I’m so excited

 

[Ashley Kekua]

I’ll add one last thing; and hopefully this thread gets locked or deleted, after.

The point to my rant was just that, a rant. I was annoyed that such simple hardware and technology was being sold at such insane prices. Maybe some of it is justified, but I’m willing to bet that most of it isn’t.
I haven’t been around REEF2REEF long enough to know that there has apparently been tons of threads like mine in the past (wonder why). That said, and after seeing all the horse beating GIFs, I am surprised to see that this thread has exploded to over 30 pages, over three thousand views, and over 300 comments. This subject is obviously very alive. Regardless, you will always have the few types of people out there that will argue anything, those that will flame everything, those that will turn the whole thing into a political debate, and finally, those that have reasonable views and just want to offer their opinions.

This being the internet, I should have expected most of this; but I definitely learned that the reefing community is no different than any other.
That said, I will kindly step away and request someone lock or delete this thread.

Thanks

You opened Pandora's box now you don't get to put it back! Shame! Ha!

 

[Ashley Kekua]

Hello,

Please elaborate, in your statement about running for President. Since you know American history so well you obviously know I can’t run for President of USA because you must be 35 and I’m only 25. So which President should I run for again? I did graduate medical school already, so at least if I do run, I would know a lot about health care, and medical care for everyone.

But politics isn’t really what I wanted to do in life (hint) I went to medical school instead. But if I did then probably would have majored in debate and political science or English, then law school. But I found biology and micro biology way more fascinating. But enough talking about me let’s talk about you @Ashley Kekua I’m so excited

I hope to be alive in 10 years and see you run! I would love for you strong confident person to be my president! !