Cost Of Equipment Is Out Of Hand

[count krunk]

also, you can spend $$$ on any hobby out there if you so choose.

$80 for an entire set of 8 year old name brand great irons. or $800 for the same brand but new model.

you can get ping pong paddles for $2 or $500.

i think the hobby has gotten cheaper since i first started in 2007. equipment wise at least. When LED's hit the market they were $2k or more to light a 75+ gallon tank. Now you could light a 220 for $300-400 of quality black boxes.

 

[Saveafish]

I'll chime in. Be nice to me.
I think the biggest problem is MAP pricing.

 

[madweazl]

Tooling costs? The ones in China, you mean? Right? They aren’t being “tooled” in the US. Look up how much those costs are for products manufactured at given volume.

Also, I don’t mean to sound rude.

I'm actually aware of what it costs to tool a niche item in the US and China. You speak of volume but you have remember what the realistic volume of this market is (tiny, and I mean tiny).

 

[joshwaggs]

I'll chime in. Be nice to me.
I think the biggest problem is MAP pricing.

Definitely agree. MAP also leaves little to no profit for the distributors (I.e. BRS, LFS, etc.)

 

[joshwaggs]

I'm actually aware of what it costs to tool a niche item in the US and China. You speak of volume but you have remember what the realistic volume of this market is (tiny, and I mean tiny).

That is a good point, but places like eco tech sell at pretty high volumes. Neptune on the other hand tiny. I agree there, but their products are still fairly simple for what they are and I would imagine (at least for the apex classic) some of the tooling probably already existed. Modules and stuff are fairly uniform.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I've been in this hobby for a long time. People will buy what they want, it's called "personal preference".

I'm a KISS guy and use equipment that works for me. No controller, jeabo wave makers, Chinese Black Boxes.....etc and have what I consider a successful reef. There is so many ways to reef. Cheap or expensive, it's personal choice. Nothing wrong buying expensive or cheap.

 

[Thor2j]

I think the price of coral is way out of control vs the hardware.

 

[joshwaggs]

This post escalated quickly.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

You are sorely mistaken.

Also, yes, vortechs are great, but do you really think 400 to 800 dollars for a freakin underwater fan is reasonable? I can buy a cell phone for less than that.

The problem with comparing up a cellphone is volume of sales. Both have R & D, production costs, have to pay people salaries, shipping etc. But cellphones usually sell in the tens of millions of units, marine quarium products may sell in the tens of thousands of units if they're popular. Cellphone makers can make less profit per unit by # of units sold and still make tons of money. There's a reason why there is only a couple of big name manufacturers... its expensive to bring high quality to the market and very risky in such a niche hobby.

 

[joshwaggs]

The problem with comparing up a cellphone is volume of sales. Both have R & D, production costs, have to pay people salaries, shipping etc. But cellphones usually sell in the tens of millions of units, aquarium projects may sell in the tens of thousands of units if they're popular. Cellphone makers can make less power unit by # of units sold anne's still make tons of money. There's a reason why there is only a couple of big name manufacturers... its expensive to bring high quality to the market and very risky in such a niche hobby.

I get that and thanks for the response. My thought process here, though, is that as companies become larger, resources greater, and market value greater, then costs should drop. With the exception of LEDs, I’m just not seeing that in the hobby.

 

[Saveafish]

Disturbing chain is way out of wack. Back in 2000 I owned a small chain of pet stores. It was cheaper for me to buy from foster and smith or petsolutions than it was from TFD In Indianapolis. Cheaper to buy from them as to buying for a distribution wholesaler.. let that one soak in.

 

[fernalfer]

You are sorely mistaken.

Also, yes, vortechs are great, but do you really think 400 to 800 dollars for a freakin underwater fan is reasonable? I can buy a cell phone for less than that.

I agree, the thing that gets me is the ecotech MP40 is $366.00 on BRS and the Ecotech MP60 is $699. Same powerhead, same design, nothing is different except one has a little more power. BUT.... $333.00 more power. What is in that MP60 that costs $333.00 more dollars to make it? Is their that much more difference between the MP60 and MP40 then their is between the MP40 and MP10? because the MP40 is only 60$ more then the MP10. But the MP60 is $333.00 more the the MP40. Don't get it........PRICE GOUGING MUCH

 

[joshwaggs]

also, you can spend $$$ on any hobby out there if you so choose.

$80 for an entire set of 8 year old name brand great irons. or $800 for the same brand but new model.

you can get ping pong paddles for $2 or $500.

i think the hobby has gotten cheaper since i first started in 2007. equipment wise at least. When LED's hit the market they were $2k or more to light a 75+ gallon tank. Now you could light a 220 for $300-400 of quality black boxes.

Oh definitely. My side (nice weather) hobbies are wood working and building drones. Both are pretty expensive. Wood working definitely rivals reefing, maybe even beats it.

 

[DancingShark]

I use jabeo, black boxes, no controller, manual dosing, and some amazon chiness stuff here and there and I am happy with them. I personally don't voice my complain about the prices about stuff, I just don't buy them.

 

[Thales]

Ah, the ol’ “well, if it’s so easy then you do it” argument. Fact is, none of the companies that are marketing these things are new, nor are they some garage operation. They are usually pretty big (service area wise). That means that at that level of manufacturing, all they do is come up with an idea, design it, then they order it from China. The most that is done outside of that is usually coding and development. They aren’t doing things from scratch.

And I’m not saying they should offer it for free. I’m saying we (as the source of their income and purpose) should be pushing back on the ridiculous prices of things that simply don’t cost that much to make.
Hobbyists are always saying they want more people in the hobby. Well, your single, biggest limiting factor in getting new people in the hobby is price. If people can’t afford get basic equipment, then they can’t get into the hobby.

I am not sure how that relates to 'if it is so easy you do it'.

Basic equipment is much less expensive than the top of the line equipment, but some people seem to think that all equipment should be the same price as basic equipment. Beginners don't need a controller (in fact I would recommend against it). All in one cube tanks are great, and cheap.

But really, if it is so easy, you do it. You'll be rich, and people will thank you.

 

[joshwaggs]

I agree, the thing that gets me is the ecotech MP40 is $366.00 on BRS and the Ecotech MP60 is $699. Same powerhead, same design, nothing is different except one has a little more power. BUT.... $333.00 more power. What is in that MP60 that costs $333.00 more dollars to make it? Is their that much more difference between the MP60 and MP40 then their is between the MP40 and MP10? because the MP40 is only 60$ more then the MP10. But the MP60 is $333.00 more the the MP40. Don't get it

Perfect example.

 

[pirate2876]

If you feel like equipment is to expensive try buying used equipment off a local forum. I bought my skimmer off R2R and couldn't be happier with what I got.

 

[Thales]

I get that and thanks for the response. My thought process here, though, is that as companies become larger, resources greater, and market value greater, then costs should drop. With the exception of LEDs, I’m just not seeing that in the hobby.

I don't think our hobby, with niche products, and even "nicher" high end products, are hitting that economy of scale. There is a huge difference between millions of units and tens of thousands of units.

 

[joshwaggs]

If you feel like equipment is to expensive try buying used equipment off a local forum. I bought my skimmer off R2R and couldn't be happier with what I got.

I do that. My first tank came from a forum member. My goal here is to push others to think twice before dropping the money and accepting the cost for the sake of cost.

But, like anything on the internet, it was a dumb idea.

 

[ndrwater]

I agree, the thing that gets me is the ecotech MP40 is $366.00 on BRS and the Ecotech MP60 is $699. Same powerhead, same design, nothing is different except one has a little more power. BUT.... $333.00 more power. What is in that MP60 that costs $333.00 more dollars to make it? Is their that much more difference between the MP60 and MP40 then their is between the MP40 and MP10? because the MP40 is only 60$ more then the MP10. But the MP60 is $333.00 more the the MP40. Don't get it........PRICE GOUGING MUCH

At the risk of fanning a flame, I will have to disagree with this. Having both MP40's and 60's, they are definitely not the same. Kindof the same way a Mini Cooper definitely isn't a Cadillac Escalade